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It's been more than six months since myself and more than 20 other BP participants have asked my club to acquire additional weights without success.   In most of the classes I attend the intructor asks participants to share weights because there aren't enough to go around.  As a guy I need close to 100 lb on the squat to challenge myself yet am lucky to get 75 during smaller classes.  Likewise on chest and clean and press my average weight is around 80 lbs but I'd prefer to do 100 if adequate weights were available.  Little wonder few guys attend the BP classes as there's no challenge with the few weights available.  There are a lot of women in my classes who are lifting a lot yet none are near the 100 lb mark so see the lack of weights as a GUY thing.  It's not the fault of any of the woman that the weights are inadequate but rather a management problem that they refuse to resolve.  It really sucks when a class starts off with the instructor asking for participants to share weights so I have to give up plates to the point where I'm not realizing any gain by lifting.  My club still doesn't have any 10 Kg plates so I'm stuck using 17.5 Kg per side for squat, chest, and clean and press that continues to be on the light side.

Feel better? Nothing beats a cathartic rant from time to time

BillyG:

Likewise on chest and clean and press my average weight is around 80 lbs but I'd prefer to do 100 if adequate weights were available.

That's very impressive if you can do 45kg for the Back track and still maintain good technique. I've plateaued at 35kg - could potentially do more, but I'm reaching the limits of what feels safe. 

The pedants will say you should always be able to do more for Squats, but 45kg is a hefty load even for this track. I used to do BP with a guy who could do 50kg, but his ROM wasn't exactly optimal.

BillyG:

... but rather a management problem that they refuse to resolve.

Which leaves you with the prospect of having to get some of your own weights. If you can get hold of the same, or very similar, plates as the studio already has, then the management can't really object. You'll just have to paint them a different colour or mark your name on them, so they don't get lost in the share-fest!

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Just published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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Billy, I agree with Trancendental. BTW, aren't you the guy with the stuffed wrist? If you are, how the **** can you do that weight for back tracks, or the chest track for that matter? I've seen some heavy squatters in my time, but nothing near that on chest or back with good form.

The alternative is to buy your own heavyweight bar, so you don't use so many weights. I don't know what sort of bars your club has, but at those weights you could be responsible for bending them, and everyone would probably thank you for bringing your own.

Is your real name Kal-El... 45kg for chest and back tracks? I've used 55kg for squats, 40kg for chest (and on back it nearly destroyed me)...

Impressive weight if you can do it - but honestly, I'd like to see it! And then I'll buy you a drink (if you make it)!

We have several guys and a couple female type instructors that can do a 40kg squat track in good form, so luckily we have about a dozen 10kg plates.  Not enough for anyone to take four of them in a morning class and still have enough for the rest to have two apiece.  Good way to get some dirty looks if you do, except for one female instructor that teaches with with 40kg and needs to get weights on and off quickly.

No real point in it for participants since it's too easy to use the squat machines in the weight room where you can load up as much as you want for as long as you want.

Rex

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I could tell you a story.... If you only knew what I was thinking. If they run out of weights then maybe a gym effort on the behalf of other participants could lend you some of their weights. Also, if the instructor is on stage and has an excess of weights then maybe they can share theirs with you. Or, maybe turn up early and secure your spot and your weights before anyone turns up. Or, go the the owners of the gym and ask them to get more weights. If they don't then discuss your membership with them saying you have sub-standard service and ask for a reduction in your gym membership till things improve.

Back to that story... of you only knew what I was thinking..... thats another thread...... if you only knew what happened in 2003 and also 2007 thats another story.........

MVP!

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RexFury:

No real point in it for participants since it's too easy to use the squat machines in the weight room where you can load up as much as you want for as long as you want.

So why use any weight at all? Or even do the class at all for that matter?

The challenge aspect of Pump is lifting as much as you safely can.

Not forgetting that BP offers a different type of resistance training to the standard rep patterns with free weights. I suppose you could do five minutes on the Smith machine to get the same workout, but the growing queue will be less than thrilled.

I'm surprised that LM don't stipulate a minimum requirement vis-à-vis equipment. It seems to be entirely up to gyms to decide on the manufacturer and quantity of barbell sets. The same seems to apply to boxes and mats too.

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Just published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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Trancendental >>>  So why use any weight at all? Or even do the class at all for that matter?

It would seem you are simply being argumentative ....

Trancendental >>>  Not forgetting that BP offers a different type of resistance training to the standard rep patterns with free weights.

Since you have answered your own question.

Trancendental >>>  I suppose you could do five minutes on the Smith machine to get the same workout, but the growing queue will be less than thrilled.

Ooops!  You've lost your train of thought (ref prev).  One doesn't do five minute sets on the Hammer machines.  And the results are entirely different.

Trancendental >>>  The challenge aspect of Pump is lifting as much as you safely can.

Only if you see Pump as an end in itself.  I see Pump as a facilitator class if only to improve one's lifestyle. Don't fall for the sizzle instead of the steak (what the BP ads scream and the fine print clarifies.)

As pointed out so many times before, if you want size, go to the weight room; if you want working strength and  endurance go to BP.  Saying it's apples and oranges makes the cliche sound almost apropos.

I usually squat 35kg with the big boys on the ends so I just need to add them to get from warm-up weight to squats and then dump them to be ready for the next track.  35kg or 40kg, BP squats are a whole body exercise that trains a lot more things than brute strength.

Rex

 

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We had a debate on the Smith Machine somewhere else in cyber space "Powerlifters" - "Bodybuilders"- "Olympic Weight Lifters" of which I am a member of that forum.

Interesting research.

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Coming soon a new concept no one has ever done before and it has been in the planning for the past 4 years.

Check out the Latest 1/4 Releases at: Tracklist Central!

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From love and the gift of eternal joy comes peace and love!

Cheers :)

RexFury:

One doesn't do five minute sets on the Hammer machines.  And the results are entirely different.

My point exactly. Your original post seemed to imply that one could substitute for the other.

RexFury:

if you want size, go to the weight room; if you want working strength and  endurance go to BP. 

Again you make my point for me. This isn't about adding muscle mass, but rather challenging what's already there.

 

So why then set an arbitrary upper limit for weight?

The rationale for BP, whether you like it or not, is about working hard. There's little point and certainly no challenge in staying within one's comfort zone. While some calories will inevitably be burnt, it is an inefficient use of the class.

Unlike you, not all of us are time-rich and can afford to use the gym as a social club. With a full-time job, family and other commitments, I need to make the most of what time I spend there. This means optimising my workout by pushing close to the limits of ability.

Cliches like "Go hard or go home" actually make a fair point.

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Just published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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Okay, first let me say that my viewpoint, especially for those of limited resources or time, is "Be what you need to be." instead of "Be all that you can be."  My rationale is not to work as hard as one can, but rather as hard as one needs to work in order to enjoy BC, BJ, skiing, sailing, diving, .... ok, tennis, golf, ping pong.

And this especially in regards to classes such as BP (Which I do about once a week and don't mean to denigrate.). 

Me >> One doesn't do five minute sets on the Hammer machines.  And the results are entirely different.

Trancendental >> My point exactly. Your original post seemed to imply that one could substitute for the other.

Clarification : Nope.  You have to choose based on what you hope to achieve.  Squatting 40+kg in BP probably only increases the size of one's ego.

Me >> if you want size, go to the weight room; if you want working strength and  endurance go to BP. 

Trancendental >> So why then set an arbitrary upper limit for weight?

Clarification : See above.  Limits on bar size and availability of weights.  Problems as mentioned by OP.  Bringing one's own weights would certainly bemuse the rest of the class.

Trancendental >> There's little point and certainly no challenge in staying within one's comfort zone. While some calories will inevitably be burnt, it is an inefficient use of the class.

Me >> Challenge yourself as much as you want but don't complain about flimsy bars, shortage of weights, ...  BP isn't about burning calories.  Cutting back to once a week would be a lot more efficient use of your time. Take up attack, combat, or jam if you don't like outdoor activities.

Trancendental >> Unlike you, not all of us are time-rich and can afford to use the gym as a social club. With a full-time job, family and other commitments, I need to make the most of what time I spend there. This means optimising my workout by pushing close to the limits of ability.

Me >> See the above, though by being single in a social setting, size and no tan lines are probably more necessary for me. {wink}

Trancendental >> Cliches like "Go hard or go home" actually make a fair point.

Me >> If it's your goal activity, sure!  For example it doesn't really apply to brushing your teeth, driving to work. scuba diving, ...

Rex

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It is abundantly clear that we have a very different perspective, both in terms of what we think the aim of the class is and what we want to achieve.

And that's fine. BP is flexible enough to meet both our expectations.

 

Fortunately I have the luxury of attending a gym with a surfeit of weights so there is never competition for equipment, so I can work to my desired intensity without inconveniencing anyone else. I can sympathise with the OP having been a member of a gym with similiar paucity such that Saturday am classes became a bun fight for gear. The upside was that sharing weights is an opportunity to meet new people.

I think it's interesting that you set 40kg as the "ego" threshold, given it's just above what you lift For many people I'm sure this is so. I'd like to think that in my case it is more for practical purposes, as British reserve means I have never been the type to obsess about whether others are taking an interest in what's on my bar.

On a more practical note, as an engineer, you will appreciate the physics principle of weight x distance = energy consumed, which is what I'm after.

 

Oh, and a fellow bubble-blower too, though not not much recently as the weather is not co-operating. Roll on October.

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Just published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

---

The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

---

trancendental:

I think it's interesting that you set 40kg as the "ego" threshold, given it's just above what you lift

On a more practical note, as an engineer, you will appreciate the physics principle of weight x distance = energy consumed, which is what I'm after.

Oh, and a fellow bubble-blower too, though not not much recently as the weather is not co-operating. Roll on October.

First let me say that squats just happen to be my strongest track.  Most women use more weight than I do in Lunges, and most guys use more weight than I do in Chest track.  40kg is probably more a "discretion" threshold for me as I tend to lean a bit forward to get full ROM and end up with a "puffy" feeling next day in lower left side of my back.  But, yeah, to your original point, I wonder if anyone "needs" to squat more than 40+kg since the body mechanics are the same as say 20kg.

work = force x distance never left my mind! LOL!  So is RPM just as quantifiable.  HRavg should even make the two comparable.

Oddly October is the best month for (Caribbean) diving here also as it's at the tail end of the hurricane season yet the water is still warm.

Rex

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Check out my facebook page. I'm always looking for a few good friends. Oh, Excuse me... May I motivate you?

RexFury:

I usually squat 35kg with the big boys on the ends so I just need to add them to get from warm-up weight to squats and then dump them to be ready for the next track.  35kg or 40kg, BP squats are a whole body exercise that trains a lot more things than brute strength.

Am I reading that right? You use the same weight for chest as for warm up?

 Can you explain what your point is about the mechanics being the same for squatting 20kg as 40kg?

ck1-:

Am I reading that right? You use the same weight for chest as for warm up?  Can you explain what your point is about the mechanics being the same for squatting 20kg as 40kg?

Yeah, and I use even less for lunges.  You gotta problem with that?  Anyway, I state as much in the post above.

Put two instructors side by side, one with 20kg and the other with 40kg, which will have the better technique, what is different between the two,  which develops less muscle skills?

Is your technique mechanically better with 40kg than with 20kg?

Rex

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