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Hello Vivers Been a while since i've posted but im seriously getting to a point where i question if it is worth buying and learning every quarter!! :S

as some might know vive is my baby of the programs, it was what got me into instructing and for the last 18months it has felt like an uphill battle to keep this program in every gym ive worked at -to give you an idea of what i mean: if all the gyms kept all those vive's i had taught up untill now i'd be sitting on 11 classes of vive alone a week, im down to teaching just one class now which started with over 30 people to getting on average around 8-12.

reason, reasons i get told for this - in my permanent class (whos ages are around 40s-50s) it is not enough for them they need more cardio more movement etc.. (in which BV 12 is heading in their alley)  HOWEVER i have another class (in which isnt mine permanently but i look after regularly when needed....also might add were the class that i started with when i was just a shadow etc..) is dropping off slowly their ages are 55+ and it is getting to fast for them, they're the class that prefer we stick to releases 4,5,6 (but i mean how much longer can we stay at those releases).

Now i know i;ve heard some people say oh its going great at our club (in which in most cases has been a new club that has just opened) not to sound like a downer on their excitement .. but .. most of the vive classes that first started out were on fire for the first few months getting full to a point where in some cases we needed to restrict numbers . . so far they have all followed the same suit 5-6months later their is a slight drop in numbers and then 6-8months later gyms start to threaten to remove it if not actually remove it!

What is everyone experiencing? i'd hate to think its just the area im in that vive doesnt work..... I'd hate to lose it but its getting to a point where u ask is it worth holding onto?  

Thoughts Ideas or anything welcome!

 

Cheers Vivers

V 

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SMILLING is OPTIONAL QUITTING is NOT

Hi there!

I love Vive & want to see it continue to grow. We have seen some of the same things you have in our gym. We have really focused on trying to show how Vive can fit the level of fitness you are at by increasing intensity. At our last launch  we stressed that low impact does not mean low intensity. We gave out copies of a modified Borg scale so that members could have a measurement to assess their intensity. We also have many members that own heart monitors so we started a log of calorie burns on a visible poster  (no names, just numbers) so that people who have the misbelief that you can't burn calories in Vive can see this. I also just returned from a childbirth education mission trip in Guatemala where we taught fitness. Practically all the moves we do in Vive are safe for pregnant women, so we feel Vive is not marketed to all potential populations. It has gotten the reputation of being for "seniors". Les Mills could help dispel this by including pregnant women, younger women that are heavier, etc in their marketing material (ie launch posters). Vive is a wonderful program. We make it lots of fun by dressing up silly & making launches a big deal EVERY launch. We have a "social event" once a month so everyone can get to know each other & make new friends with the common goal of health. I wish we had Vive available when I started in the gym 200lbs heavier 4 years ago. I would never have dreamed I would become an instructor at that time because I was a lifetime couch potato. I am on a mission to help others learn that exercise can be fun!  ~~~~~t

 

Hi,Couldn't agree more with the previous posts.  The marketing is all wrong for the program.  I had all shapes/sizes/ages in my Vive class before I had to give it up because of numbers.  The music also needs some updating.  There are sooooo many songs from the 60/70/80's that would be more motivating than the choices for the past couple of releases.  

Also, when the add a song for "camp" value like Ghostbusters or NY, NY - they should include extras to fill in when the novelties wearoff.  Ok, I know, I can mix, but it seems like money lost when you can only play a song 5 or 6 times off of a CD.  

The Yoga/Tai Chi needs to be thought out better, too.  Sometimes it's like hitting a brick wall after the cardio.  Maybe Jackie can give some advice as to the brilliant, breathing moves she uses in Balance.

I do miss Vive.  I helped bring it to my town.  To those of you teaching Vive, enjoy it.

 Hi Vive,

Christiana 

 

 

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Why be normal?

UGH! I couldn't agree more! While I LOVE Vive for all that it has done for me personally and professionally, I have to wonder....where are we going? Yes, the trip is going to be bumpy. We've had several of the same issues with our clients with the class; too fast for seniors, not enough for "steady group fitness members". MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC!!! What were they thinking with "ghostbusters"?! It's funny and charming the first time around but then it gets boring and, unfortunately, even annoying. Even when teaching high/low options and focusing on better myself along with the members I feel like VIVE is missing something. I'm not sure what it is. I thin the premise is good, but maybe not make it so broad. If they would "fine-tune" it and find a nice natural rhythm it would be so much easier for all envolved. HOWEVER, I trust Les Mills to find the beat after trying several things. (It doesn't happen overnight!) Stick with it friends! VIVE will prevail!

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Those who dare to dream, dare to do. -EF

I'm going to disagree with some of you a bit. I think the Vive program just keeps getting better and better. It is a total body workout. I just finish my training, but have been taking classes for a few years. Here are a few thing I learned in training:

Market as "High energy/ low impact class" That helps dispel the thought that low impact means easy.

Average calories burned per class were 500.

Challenge your participants to work harder by getting lower and stronger instead of bouncy.

When you mix up the tracks you could be working certain body parts or moves too much. (I love how the moves flow through from each track)

 I agree that some of the music is strange. You can't please everyone all the time. I think it is a good thing that it changes every 3 months. We get sick of it faster than our classes because we listen to it so much as we learn and practice it.

All of the classes at our club seem to be down the last few years. Body pump blows all the other program away. Maybe we all just need to really show our love and excitment for it to get members "pumped".

This program is still a work in progress. I personally think it is brilliant.

 Maybe you could give out free class passes to get people hooked? Have a bring a friend day. Give out purple dark chocolate kisses to people at the gym and tell them about the class.

Good luck.

Keep on Viving!

Minda

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"Do or do not, there is no try." -Jedi Master Yoda

Hi Vicky,

I really feel for you. Vive has grown into a great low impact gfp accesible for everyone.  The way Vive has been introduced in the Netherlands, LM NL and even journalistic reports in the major newspapers (AD, Telegraaf), put me of balance in the way "How can I promote BV", why? than I already was in the LM business for 10 yrs. Being manager of a club I try to put VIVE in the front lines. My co man. and I, dtp-ed a new brochure, leaving out a lot of he text of the LM NL one and we used a new image. With this leaflet  try to have more  participants.                        My other classes (BP, BB) I start with BV music and sometimes I do a routine, depending the program. Also I participate  in the LM NL advisory board through which I try to turn things around. HARD. Wish you lived out here, you would have a job.

Question: do not understand the way of licencing/paying instr. qlies in yr country. Here a club has to pay for the program licence and in addition for the qlies of there instructors.

hugs and good vibes, yr are always welcome in my club (www.vabenefitness.nl)

annelies:

Hi Vicky,

I really feel for you. Vive has grown into a great low impact gfp accesible for everyone.  The way Vive has been introduced in the Netherlands, LM NL and even journalistic reports in the major newspapers (AD, Telegraaf), put me of balance in the way "How can I promote BV", why? than I already was in the LM business for 10 yrs. Being manager of a club I try to put VIVE in the front lines. My co man. and I, dtp-ed a new brochure, leaving out a lot of he text of the LM NL one and we used a new image. With this leaflet  try to have more  participants.                        My other classes (BP, BB) I start with BV music and sometimes I do a routine, depending the program. Also I participate  in the LM NL advisory board through which I try to turn things around. HARD. Wish you lived out here, you would have a job.

Question: do not understand the way of licencing/paying instr. qlies in yr country. Here a club has to pay for the program licence and in addition for the qlies of there instructors.

hugs and good vibes, yr are always welcome in my club (www.vabenefitness.nl)

 

 

 

Hi annelies, firstly answer your question the club in aus pays for the licence however does not pay for the quaterlies or dvd packs for their instructors - us instructors here pay for our own workshops and our own education packs. We also have to pick up the packs at the workshops where i know some countries get it mailed out to them first.

Fantastic to hear that vive is doing so well i really hope it hangs in there here because it is such a great program.

Ive been reading everone else's posts - i never mentioned that vive wasnt getting better yes it is without doubt after all i have been doing vive for ages before i trained it in and i trained on release 6 so ive also been teaching vive for a while and have seen each release develop. Having said that it is not my point - if its going to get faster then maybe it should not be an over 65+ or marketed for them or maybe it is that gyms over here in my area arent supporting it enough and making it appear accessible for it (which needs to happen in order for people to enter the room and try it) one of my clubs that are struggling have had vive since release 5 i think maybe people tried it back then and have never gave it a second chance, i dont know what it is but as an instructor i can only do soo much to promote the classes - free passes etc... i've tried also but then after a while the gym puts a stop to it and wount allow us to give out any more. Gets kinda frustrating.

in my other classes i always mention vive in there somewhere - i,e bodyjam has some similar moves to some vive tracks and i'd mention that in jam or step there are straddles that vive has similar to again promoting vive . . . doing everything i can personally do for it - hope one day some of the gyms wil get behind it and support it here also =) 

Hugs and happy Viving =)

xx 

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SMILLING is OPTIONAL QUITTING is NOT

I'm gonna go out and disagree as well. I teach Vive at a club that opened right at the beginning of August. We started with one class on the timetable to see how it went with members. We have ended up expanding the timetable so much that we now have FIVE classes a week, with all of them getting at least 15 in each class. In fact, our Tuesday night Vive class here gets so packed out week after week (30+) that we run out of Vive balls and tubes (?!) for all the members.

And the astounding thing is... the numbers keep growing. And it shows no signs of declining at this point in time, which can only be a good thing for the Vive program.

High Vive!

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There is no such thing as 'normal' in this world!
Certified BodyJam instructor since 15/4/2009.
Trainee BodyVive instructor (awaiting certification outcome).

Hi Jamfrog,

I am very happy for you the BV program is a great succes!

I really appreciate yr reply and do understand the meaning. I would like to clarify my post without being arrogant or what so ever, because it is based purely on my observations over the past 3 yrs. In the NL I did the first BV training. During that training there was a dialogue concerning the way LM NL was going to introduce BV, based on the brochure ie: pictures and the written text, because there was little comparison to what the LM PI taught us and the contence of the manual. Out of the record, the LM PI did agree and promissed to pass all the remarks to LM NL. It took 2 years before the pictures on the official brochure changed, text had not been adjusted. Then there was the article in the Dutch news papers I referred to. As if you had to be "cripled" to do a BV class. Huge set back, that was. This was all based on BV 1. My input in the NL LM advisory board on this topic had no impact. I hope you understand that BV had a "cripled" start. A first impression is difficult to turn around, also because the program kept evolving and every new release was sort of different from the previous one/ones. Not only my club but many others had the same difficulties. The number of instructors doing the qlies didnot grow, same faces time again and when exchanging thaughts we all came to the same conclusion: the initital launch(brochure), newspaper article and the fact that the program had not "matured" yet were the reasons why the program is/was so difficult to promote. I, dedicated LM instr. for 10 yrs in BP, BB and BV, will never be negative about a program because I try to look beyond and understand the purpose. Because believing in BV I designed my own brochure leaving out a majority of the text on the Dutch brochure that imo was not representative anymore for BV, especially after the latest qly, where we were told that BV is the LM low impact program  for everyone. In this brochure I use only LM words/text and the picture of the latest BV release, which imo is representative now for BV. In this way I try to help LM promote BV and attrack more members to a BV class. My opinion is: BV is a very good low impact program for everyone all over the world.  Launching the program now, a club has a great advantage to clubs that launched BV from #1. Use this advantage to make BV grow and we all will have packed classes. Kia Kaha and good vi b/v es 

 

 

Have to agree with annelies patrick - Your club has just opened - im pretty sure i mentioned in one of my earlier posts about new clubs . . . As a new club you have the opportunity to launch vive from the current releases 11,12 as u are aware. My point is similar to what annelie has just said - most of the clubs i teach at have had vive from release 4 or 5, so their intial induction into vive was that of a slow program for essentialy the baby boomers - now the marketing has changed a bit which is fantastic if your a new club that can launch it in which ever way you choose but what about those clubs where vive was intially introduced as a baby boomer program (which it was back at release 4???) Exactly as mentioned above the program was aim'ed more are those who were older or injuried or pre post natal - when cleary as we have seen it is open soo many more than that. Having said that clubs that have had it from earlier releases have kind of tarnished the reputation making it so difficult for us instructors to rebuild that. My Point to all of this is how does one rebuild vive when a) the club wount change its marketing for it too much and b) change peoples minds just to try it again after the preconception that its not a difficult class or a hard working class either by word of mouth or by participating in a release such as 4 throu to 7.

 

V 

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SMILLING is OPTIONAL QUITTING is NOT

I agree Vive needs to find itself a little... I think as I have said before the choreography needs to be a little simpler so that the intensity in some of the cardio can be elevated for the younger members . I also think the music needs a little updating as well. I am a 51 year old instructor and some of the music makes me cringe and I feel silly teaching to it I hear this from members alot... our numbers have also gone down and we really love the program so come on Les Mills  give us some help to keep us VIVEING !!!!

Hello everyone,

 

I'm also teaching BV in Holland and I recognise what you're describing. However, in this case time is evident as well as where you put the BV. We work with combinations on sportevenings. The tuesdays and thursdays are Les Mills evenings at our club. The other days we have all sorts of lessons, like Zumba, freestyle steps etc.

Anyway, we've put the Vive on tuesday, at 18:30 hrs. After that we have a Combat. It's my experience, that you have to point out to people that BV is indeed a class where you can work out on your own intensity. Furthermore, on tuesdays, I got a lot of Combatters who take the Vive class to 'warm-up' for the Combat. The combination of Vive and Combat is a great one for everyone who wants to take two classes in a row (and there are a lot of people who want that) The ages vary a lot in my classes. I;ve got young people, who are just starting taking classes. I always end up losing them to Combat or Pump (lucky for me I also teach the Pump) but that's ok. But I agree that BV 11 hasn't been that great of a launch, therefore people don;t show up anymore. I hope that will change again with the next launch. At our gym we always do a mega-launch, where we teach some numbers of all of the lessons and make one big praty. Mostly I have some more people after that and than it's trying to keep them in class till the end. On sundays I teach BV and BP in a row, so I just tell mu Pumpers to also take the BV class. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't... But I don't complain. It could be worse indeed and they could take it off the schedule.

Anyway, after this much too long story, the bottom line of it is: make combinations. Try to build up an evening. We have Bodyvive, Bodycombat and Bodybalance on tuesdays, in that order and on thursdays we have the BodyJam, Bodyattack and Bodypump. And on sundays Bodyvive and Bodypump. It works in some ways. Maybe it's a tip you can use?

 

Kind regards,

Patrick 

Okay, Vivers, put the kettle on, this will be a long winded one,but I hope I get the point across without any offence to anyone teaching the programme, be they new to it, or those of us who took it on earlier.

Vive is falling into a yawning chasm, and good luck to those of you introducing it as it is now. Saying that, those that can do the newer release, are more than capable of Attack..and I will hope that they are given the low impact optios with a great instructor in front of them..it can, and is done. I send my Vivers to our 45 minute Attack, and they do well.

For those of us who started earlier ( and I know and appreciate this has been addressed), Vive has lost it. For my people who came as an "intro" with challenges..they're gone, well gone. I coach well, have been around a long time and am always, always super conscious of who's in front of me, whether it be BP/RPM/BV or freestyle.

 

My thoughts ( and I know I'll be shot down)..the new ones are too fast, too much.Which is okay if the music would move with the times.Which it hasn't. ( I am very partial to Strike Me Up for the record ).

But, this is Vive, and if it is going to move into the realms it has..we no longer have a programme for the "Jesus Wept, I have no idea and have never exercised before".

We trialled my freestyle version ( the old school TTB/Sculpt)..and this is at a stand alone LM club..they preferred it..why? I catered it to the people in front of me.

My older ladies are gone..and I'm sad for them as I want to keep them moving..use it or lose it..

So, my thoughts?? Vive either has to go back and slow this sucker down and make it more user friendly..or move forward and bring the music with it.

Hey, I like 12..but, have lost the people( who started to drift off around BV 9, when things really started to pace up ) that it was initially intended for..so now, we have no programme that caters for the age group that want to move..they are heading to Curves in droves..

See, told you to put the kettle on!!

 

I think to say that Vive is now too fast is a bit of a generalisation...

 I do agree that some of the tracks are on the fast side, e.g. track 3 from release 10 was INSANE fast lol...

 I teach Vive 3 times a week in 2 different clubs and average between 20 and 40 participants.  The average age of the participants is about 65, but my oldest participant is nearly 80!!!

 Although I do get comments about tracks like that being a bit fast, my members all know that they need to work at their own pace, i.e. if they start to struggle, they make the moves smaller...

The majority of the negative feedback I receive comes from the 2nd half of the class where we are down on the floor. e.g. moves like the half camel where you are on your knees...

 I think most people would find it easier to work at their own pace in the cardio part of the class.  However, it's harder to accommodate people with "issues" in the later parts of the class where they physically uncomfortable in a position or unable to even get into it...

I'm not saying, hey let's just not do these exercises cos a small minority can't do them, but I do think there need to be more options...

 In response to the first few posts, I agree, I think the marketing is still not right... 

 

I want to love VIVE. I keep hearing that it's awesome and we need to bring it to our facilities. But, every time I go to a quarterly, I can't figure out who the program is for! The cardio portion is way too easy for our older adults and the tubing has way too much resistance for them.

So, who is BODYVIVE for?!

- Amy

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Amy Schwartz Fitness & Wellness Director JCC of Greater Baltimore aschwartz@jcc.org