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Hey remember me, yes BP is still off-beat.

Anyways about 6 months ago I was in a BP class, the instructor (copying the DVD of course) during the back track said if you could lift the bar hozontally in front of you then the bar is too light.  I had my usual 40 pounds on the bar and I could lift it straight in front of me, so I upped it to 60 pounds and did the back track with that much weight (since I couldn't lift it horizontally in front of me at 60).  After the class I had what I thought was a sore left calf muscle.  After a month (still pumping) with a constant calf pain I saw my doctor, he said to lay off of it, it was a muscle strain.

I went to an abs class and during the leg raises I felt a shotting pain through my left leg when I pressed a certain spot on my back.  Went to a Chiropractor and he said it was a sore muscle and to do nothing to let it rest.  It got MUCH worse during two weeks, the Chiropractor said to see my doctor and that he couldn't help me.  My doctor gave me some stronger drugs and said 95% chance it will go away on it's own and said I should see a Physical Therapist.  Another month with the drugs not helping, he sent me to a neurosurgeon.  I soon had an MRI, it was confirmed I had a ruptured disc L5-S1 (also known as herniated disc).  I had two epidural injections of steroids that were supposed to relieve the offending herniation and shrink it to relieve pain.  The second one seemed to work and the pain has become much less painful (it doesn't cause excruciating pain after sitting for 30 minutes anymore), in fact I can almost tolerate the pain all day without drugs now.  I go back to see him again this week to discuss getting another injection or back surgery.

Anyways the Physical Therapist and the Neurosurgeon said that the back rows are murder on your back and likely caused my injury (yes I told them EVERYTHING I was doing regularly).  I'm 31 years old, 6'7" 195lbs, I had done BP and similar classes for 3 years twice a week, ran two marathons, and loved doing cardio; thus I was in great shape, even my chairs are ergonomically approved, my office is suited for my height (too high for most my colleagues) I really have a huge focus on health yet this still happened to me.  It's been 5 months now since I've lifted weights (may get back into it slowly now) I'm getting back into normal cardio classes (I was taking aqua classes only for a long time), I haven't run in a LONG time, not from my back I quit way before that since I always found it boring.  I bend properly all the time, my job is an Electrical Engineer and is not physically demanding, I can pretty much pinpoint the single BP class where I overloaded my bar during back exercises that caused my disc to rupture and pinch my sciatica nerve.

Thus a WARNING to everyone, talk to your doctor and a physical therapist to discuss your BP workout (especially the back exercises).  Hopefully I'll fully recover without surgery, I will slowly try to get back into weight training (I really like BP because I need the music to lead my motions), but there is no way I would ever want to re-injure myself, the pain is intolerable.  During the worse of it (about 3 months) I was only sleeping about 3-5 hours a night, I would wake up in severe pain, the drugs did nothing to help, I missed many days of work doing nothing but laying down trying to stretch out my back wishing I was dead so the pain would stop, I didn't even play my beloved DDR game during this time [I hadn't missed more than a week during 8 years]).  Like everyone else I thought the whole BP routine was approved by health professionals, but I haven't found a single one who approves of the free-standing forward lean (dead lift).

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What happens when DDR and Body Step combine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WzGVIGKNM

OMG, what a story!

Good recovery for you...and start praticing BP very very slowly..

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE On twitter : Tiger75Paris

Wow Jeremiah, that is a shocking story! Please let me know, if you can remember, the release or song this happened on and please let me know the k´s you used. I´m not familiar with lbs.  Good luck recovering, maybe I can give you some advise to help you on the road again. Am shocked!

Sorry to hear about your disc problem.

While I am not a BP instructor (I teach RPM), I have been doing BP for about 3 years now. I have learned never to increase my weight by as much as you said you did when you are already lifting a hefty amount. I've been doing 40lbs in the back track for a while now and just upped my weights by a small plate (about 5lbs). Definite possiblity for injuries to go up that much at one time, in my opinion.

Also sorry about the way the medical profession treated you. I used to live on the east coast and found the majority (not all, but the majority) of doctors back there take too many shortcuts to get you out of the office quickly. I always heard "stop doing this" or "take this drug" without actually investigating to the level they should (my wife saw 8 doctor's before being diagnosed properly). You wait 2 hours in the waiting room just so they can see you for 5 minutes and make a diagnosis, which was often wrong.

I suffer from 3 degenerated lower discs and have to cut back on BP routines from time to time, so I know the pain you were/are experiencing. I would definitely suggest omitting any tracks that contribute to your problem and when you are able to slowly get back into those tracks (squats can also aggrevate the problem), consider wearing a weight lifting belt for added support. It sure helped me, especially during squat and back tracks.

Best of luck with your recovery.

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Robert - Certified RPM instructor & BODYPUMP enthusiast - LIVE TO RIDE, RIDE TO LIVE! (Don't feed the monster!)

HellRazoR:

Hey remember me.

How could we forget Welcome back.

Sorry to hear about your injuries. It does seem that tall people are more susceptible to back injuries. The bent-over work in the Back track does require a lot of the core (and back), but many of the other tracks do too including Squats, Biceps and Shoulders. Maintaining perfect technique is the best defence against injury, but obviously not infallible.

At least you've done the sensible thing in getting properly worked up by both medical and allied specialists. While I share Robert's concerns about the rather slow course they have taken to get to the root of your problem (pardon the pun), the exact cause of back pain can be very difficult to diagnose so they shouldn't be criticised too readily.

Prolapse discs can take a long time to heal spontaneously, but that is preferable option to surgery unless the pain really becomes uncontrollable. Standard analgesics are often ineffectual in this sort of injury, and many people find that alternative therapies like acupuncture and TENS can provide superior relief.

Good luck with getting back to DDRing.

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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Thanks, I will probably do much of the class without any weights and I'll skip back from now on.  The PT said to use machines for back.  Yeah my Dr. really disappointed me, even after 3 weeks of PT I went back to him and he suggested I start PT (he didn't even read my chart to know I had been going for 3 weeks).  Then he submitted a request for an MRI and it was denied.  He also tried to tell me that my calf pain was NOT associated with my back problem and that was a separate problem, because he didn't want to admit he made a mistake when he said I had only seen him for the back problem for 1 month when it was really 2 months ago when I had told him of a constant calve pain, thankfully he told me to see a Neurosurgeon, one appointment with the Neurosurgeon and he had scheduled me for the MRI the next week and told me not to worry about my insurance denying the procedure (he was correct it was approved).  I consider my Dr. next to worthless now, he seems to only be a drug pusher and I'm against drugs (yes I'm talking about perscription).

I don't know the release, it was a new one because the instructor was new.  I only increased my weight because he said to do it to get an effective back exercise, I hadn't injured myself prior to this and I thought even 60 pounds (= 27KG) wasn't heavy assuming I would fatigue if the weight was to high (not hurt my back).  But then again I am 6'7" so the pressure on my back will be higher than most due to the increased lever. 

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What happens when DDR and Body Step combine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WzGVIGKNM

Thanks so much for your sincere, honest, and detailed description of you injury and how it happened.  Your post really hit home with me because at 64 I'm faced daily with my evolving mortality and the anxiety of screwing the pooch and shortening or lessening what I have left (LOL! hopefully quite a few years more).

There are those an injury like yours has happened to, and those that it might well happen to if they aren't ever vigilent as they get older.  I'll leave ideas for avenues of treatment to others.

I'll never forget my first week of BP as none, NONE, of the instructors liked my bent rows or dead lifts, and since the program had just launched with all new instructors they wanted to get everyone off to a good start.  I got called out a lot that week. It had to do with keeping my back straight, looking forward but not too much, slight bend in the knees, ... I'll leave correct description of the move to instructors, but you get the idea.  Keeping the back straight seems to me to be the main thing with all the other details sort of helping you to do that.

Instructors, help me with this.  A pose from yoga has helped me a lot in keeping proper alignment.  A good yoga instructor can help you con muchos detalles for doing it correctly, and like a lot of yoga poses, you could spend a life time just perfecting this simple looking pose.  Same for some BP positions, huh.

Speedy recovery to the injured, and an extra vigilence to the rest of you,

Rex

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Hi Jeremiah sorry to hear about what happened not cool.

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Welcome back, HellRazoR! So sorry to hear about your injury!

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BODYSTEP participant since January 2008, BODYPUMP participant since February 2009.

HellRazoR:

The PT said to use machines for back.

The back machines I use have the potential to cause the same injury you experienced because one needs to keep the back straight with them also.

The advantage of doing the back machine on your own is that you can do each rep more slowly while maintaining correct alignment throughout.

I've seen terrible form on the back machines with peeps starting with a bowed back and the first part of raising the weight stack occurs as they straighten their upper back (!), and then they hyperextend the lower back by trying to get maximum range of motion to raise the weights as high as possible.

Back to BP, I'd be in favor of doing away with single count dead lifts and squats in favor of 2&2s.

Rex

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Check out my facebook page. I'm always looking for a few good friends. Oh, Excuse me... May I motivate you?

Loppan:

Welcome back, HellRazoR! So sorry to hear about your injury!

I need to frame this, never thought anyone would say welcome back to me.

Please explain how the back machines can cause the same injury as a dead lift.  I've tried a few and your back is forced into a straight position because of the pad right in front of your chest, I am really curious since I now have a heightened awareness of back issues (plus I am still in constant pain although probably 80-90% better than it used to be). 

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What happens when DDR and Body Step combine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WzGVIGKNM

HellRazoR:

Please explain how the back machines can cause the same injury as a dead lift. 

hmmmm...  The lower back machines here all have a relatively narrow pad that goes across your shoulder blades in back which then pivots at hip level.  You start quite folded at the waist (pike position, which some peeps achieve by bending the back instead of folding at the waist, and thus the problem) then use lower back strength to straighten the torso at the waist but not to the extent of hyperextending.

Also there is a great tendency to do as much weight as possible.  Nope!  And I'm sure you'll agree with this point.

Rex

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Check out my facebook page. I'm always looking for a few good friends. Oh, Excuse me... May I motivate you?

RexFury:

HellRazoR:

Please explain how the back machines can cause the same injury as a dead lift. 

hmmmm...  The lower back machines here all have a relatively narrow pad that goes across your shoulder blades in back which then pivots at hip level.  You start quite folded at the waist (pike position, which some peeps achieve by bending the back instead of folding at the waist, and thus the problem) then use lower back strength to straighten the torso at the waist but not to the extent of hyperextending.

Also there is a great tendency to do as much weight as possible.  Nope!  And I'm sure you'll agree with this point.

Rex

That makes sense, so far I've only done the fly machine and the seated row, both have good support I think.  If I see the machine you mention I'll stay away.  Oh and don't worry about me doing as much weight as possible, that's never been my policy, I'm in it for the long haul (endurance) never been into the manly "see how loudly you can throw your dumbells on the floor" crowd.  I'd rather be light and fit, than all large and bulky, although someday I think I'll have to bulk up, shave my head, and wear spandex pants (no shirt) like all the rasslers do since I already have the height. 

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What happens when DDR and Body Step combine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-WzGVIGKNM

Point 1- your instructor is wrong. Saying that if you can "lift the bar horizontally in front of you, then the bar is too light" smacks of an instructor who has little to no training outside the BP training module. That point was neither raised nor addressed in my training and is nowhere to be found in the manual. Your dumbass instructor is a fool. You can tell it I said so. The overhead presses recruit the medial (side) deltoid moreso than the anterior (front), which is what a front raise does. The medial is a larger head, hence it can negotiate a bit more. While you're mentioning the back track, let's not be kittenish and say the muscles of the back lift the arm in front of the body.

Point 2- the 'back rows' are absolutely not murder on your back. I don't give a fiddler's fart about what your PT says. A row is one of the most functional exercises one can do for their back. We pull and lift things on daily basis (unless one is Lady GaGa, who instead has her warped carnival troupe of dancers do it for her).

Point 3- you manage your own workout. While instructors may guide and motivate, they aren't your keeper. You decide what's going to work best for you and what won't. You've been doing this for several years (indignantly, I must admit). Listen to your own body and know its limits.

Point 4- back injuries are the leading cause of missed days of work in the US. More than 80% of their manifestations are due to improper body mechanics- i.e. you either moved or lifted like a simpleton. Don't blame a program you've been doing for several years without question (save for timing) on something you more than likely did on your own (or in your abs class- whose exercises raise my eyebrows).

I'm glad you're back, but come on, your thread is a little incendiary.

Praise hallelujah..

 

While no one wishes injury upon anyone, fitnessguy summed it all up very tidily indeed.