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Sometimes, my elbows can be below the bench, which is not correct.

But I try and succeed to place correctly the elbows most of the time

Maybe without a bench, my elbows won't drop below the bench as I'm on the ground.

 So my question is  : is it better with a bench or without?

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE

While I am a new instructor these are two specific question I asked in training a few weeks ago. As for legs up, My trainer said to discourage it for all the reasons listed below. When we questioned about doing the chest track on the floor, she said that is also a no-no because when your elbows hit the floor it allows the muscle to momentarily relese tension.

I used the mirror a lot to find my correct ROM. Ideally you want your upper arm parallel with the floor at the bottom of the movement, keeping the chest loaded. For me that is several inches above the chest.

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“A lot of people have gone further than they thought they could because someone. else thought they could.” -Zig

Teaching RPM™ and BODYPUMP™ in Bowie Maryland!!

As others have said, feet in the air is a no no.

It has already been explained mostly, but slightly different take here on the whole unstability thing:

 

Crossing the legs = unstabilising the spine

Lifting the legs = engaging the core. Good you would think? But no, because that should be in track 9 as part of a workout. You should be stabilising the core while lifting the weights to protect your spine (while feet are on the ground), but over working the core muscles (by lifting your legs) could leave the area over fatigued and not able to stabilise the weights enough. Maybe not an issue in someone with a super strong core.........but we're talking about the general population.

Also, it's just not necessary.......save the abdominal workout for track 9. This is a chest track.  

Bradley:

When we questioned about doing the chest track on the floor, she said that is also a no-no because when your elbows hit the floor it allows the muscle to momentarily relese tension.

I'm glad to hear a trainer teaching this. It supports my discussion points from this thread a while back: http://www.lesmills.com/Community/forums/permalink/63923/63776/ShowThread.aspx#63776

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Another way to check that your elbows don't drop below the top of the bench is to put a rigid mat on top of the bench.  When your elbows hit the mat you went too far.

 

Jamie

Bradley:

While I am a new instructor these are two specific question I asked in training a few weeks ago. As for legs up, My trainer said to discourage it for all the reasons listed below. When we questioned about doing the chest track on the floor, she said that is also a no-no because when your elbows hit the floor it allows the muscle to momentarily relese tension.

I used the mirror a lot to find my correct ROM. Ideally you want your upper arm parallel with the floor at the bottom of the movement, keeping the chest loaded. For me that is several inches above the chest.

 

Bradley, 

For my information, why is it bad that the muscles to release tension?

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE

jkhill11:

Another way to check that your elbows don't drop below the top of the bench is to put a rigid mat on top of the bench.  When your elbows hit the mat you went too far.

 

Jamie

 

smart tip, I will have to put some weights for example next to my bench  

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE

tiger75:

Bradley, 

For my information, why is it bad that the muscles to release tension?

I'm not Bradley.......but..........releasing the tension in the muscles = not working out (at that point), which is the point where the muscles should instead be under maximum load. The point where the arms are at 90 degrees are (or should be) the most difficult part of the move.

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pipera:

I have raised my legs to do chest press for many years and have done so in front of many master trainers and they have had no issues with me doing it.

 

When?  If you were doing this back when you started BP then it would have been acceptable, just like doing squats with knees pointed forward and with a narrow stance, but things have changed a lot of the years and a lot of the old techniques just aren't safe.  If you notice some of the coaching in the recent DVD's are to keep your heels on the floor.

misfit:

tiger75:

Bradley, 

For my information, why is it bad that the muscles to release tension?

I'm not Bradley.......but..........releasing the tension in the muscles = not working out (at that point), which is the point where the muscles should instead be under maximum load. The point where the arms are at 90 degrees are (or should be) the most difficult part of the move.

 

oh ok, I get it now. Thanks for the explanation.

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE

Bradley:

While I am a new instructor these are two specific question I asked in training a few weeks ago. As for legs up, My trainer said to discourage it for all the reasons listed below. When we questioned about doing the chest track on the floor, she said that is also a no-no because when your elbows hit the floor it allows the muscle to momentarily relese tension.

I used the mirror a lot to find my correct ROM. Ideally you want your upper arm parallel with the floor at the bottom of the movement, keeping the chest loaded. For me that is several inches above the chest.

I completely agree with your reasons for not using the bench, but just wanted to throw out something for thought.

For newbies would it be worth them starting on the floor to ensure they do a proper ROM? Obviously they'd need appropriate cueing to let them know that once their elbows have touched the floor they have reached an appropriate depth. With time they'll learn to work the correct ROM instinctively (as we all do) and can then go up to the bench after a few classes. Might be especially useful in studios that don't have mirrors.

Being newbies the "break" at the bottom would have less of an impact since they are in the development phase anyway and, as I said, it need only be for the first few classes.

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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Bradley:

When we questioned about doing the chest track on the floor, she said that is also a no-no because when your elbows hit the floor it allows the muscle to momentarily relese tension.

It may be right for them to say that.

However, if you are in a situation where:

a) They don't have enough steps; and
b) There are tons of weights to go around and bars;

Then if a - b are the contributing factors then yes go ahead and do the class without a bench. BTW that did happen and has happened.

I was in that situation and I was told "as there is not enough steps to go around some of you need to do the class without steps" we did.

Nothing happend we all were safe and finshed the class without any injuries.

The other thing is if someone needs to raise their legs to remove a pain issue then that should be their right to do so. Or, becuase of a health issue and they insist that the person do so then that is wrong. IMO! The raising of the legs removes the pain and does it effectivley.

In another point, raising the legs activates the abdominals and recruits (as you call it the core.) the abs more. It is an advanced option and has an effective training effect.

What really gets me is that people say say no-no the world is not black and white. There are shades of grey and different colours on the canvas.

IMO!

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pipera:

IMO!

 

Please..... keep it....

 

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“A lot of people have gone further than they thought they could because someone. else thought they could.” -Zig

Teaching RPM™ and BODYPUMP™ in Bowie Maryland!!

trancendental:

Being newbies the "break" at the bottom would have less of an impact since they are in the development phase anyway and, as I said, it need only be for the first few classes.

It's not really useful to start newbies off on the floor, since they start with a light weight that shouldn't really injure them if they go too low. Suggesting they use the floor would really only be a good idea if they really are having problems identifying the correct range of motion after already doing several pump classes.

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Unofficial Les Mills news and tracklists - www.totallylesmills.com
LM & Fitness Forum - www.groupfitness.org

pipera:

... raising the legs activates the abdominals ... It is an advanced option ...

Please stop playing devil's advocate just for the sake of perpetuating your flawed argument.

I know you never completed your BP training, but even you should still know that this is wrong. Hell, even I as a (fellow) participant know what is correct and not. Suggest alternative technique for outside class if you must, but you should clearly emphasise that it is not part of BP technique, even as an "advanced" option.

In this regard, there are no shades of grey. The chore as prescribed by LM is utterly unequivocal and posting anything to the contrary will just confuse new participants reading this thread.

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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Listen here, on page 20 of the Instructors Manual for Bodypump there is an option figure 3.6c that clearly states you can do legs off the ground. Neutral spine is correct in both the feet flat in the floor option and also on the legs raised option. The only thing is that with legs off the ground you require a fair degree of stabilisation. It is in the Instructors Manual for Bodypump.

Likewise on page 25 of the Instructors Manual for Bodypump fig 3.8c there is an option for legs off the ground. The spine in this position is also neutral for triceps extensions and presses.

I would emphasis Correct Supine position in both positions.

There is also an option quoting from the Bodypump Instructors Manual.

1.     Execute the movement while lying down on the floor to naturally reduce the range of motion. (Triceps.)

2.     Non Bench Option (Chest) to reduce the range of movement an effective option is to lie down on the floor.

Yes it is in the Instructors Manual for Bodypump.

Yes it was demonstrated to me as an option by my Master Trainer for Bodypump.

So there you go, I have done this in front of many Master Trainers and they have said nothing to me about correcting me.

This is from text released by Les Mills International I am not making it up and it is there in the Instructors Manual for Bodypump Section 3 Physical Execution.

Also on the Instructors Resources for Bodypump 53 Susan Renata clearly demonstrates that you can use the floor option. It is clearly explained by Bryce why this is done and was written by Bryce and Michael J Mc Sweeney.

Cheers!

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Coming soon a new concept no one has ever done before and it has been in the planning for the past 4 years.

Check out the Latest 1/4 Releases at: Tracklist Central!

Check my profile the truth is out there - X-Files :)

Check out my Training Fitness and Exercise and Higher - University Vocational and Educational Qualifications Here!



From love and the gift of eternal joy comes peace and love!

Cheers :)