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Maki no my post about the comment that i took abit offensive was not at you - I did quote the line where the person said just go out and enjoy your classes - i believe it was richardt that posted it.

Participants are always welcome on the forms - its great that you guys care enough to come on here and express how you feel about the programs, rather than just us instructors expressing what our participants and ourselves think.

 As i said in my earlier post everyone is different in what they prefer - im sure in some of my newer classes they like the longer tracks over the older releases - what im tryin to say is that there should be variety i guess, as its not really "fair" to have release after release of the same kinda thing (i.e time lengths/similar blocks etc..) If jam is wanting to appeal to a wide open audience including the guys that started participating from early releases such as 29.

 

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SMILLING is OPTIONAL QUITTING is NOT

mrrocket:

...how long it would take before jamfrog popped up from the crevasse of G's backside

That was uncalled for.

vive-a-licous:

... If jam is wanting to appeal to a wide open audience including the guys that started participating from early releases such as 29.

 

Thank you, vive-a-licous.

I just found my point in your remark as quoted above.  In my opinion, if instructors treat participants as "audience", we would not think BJ is an attractive variety of program.  In that case, you may lose some participants in a next couple of lessons.

When we go to a lesson like BJ, a participant usually expects to involve in rather actively using ones own command, not to become something like a recipient of benefit (nor to become someone like a dancer, either).  Otherwise, a lesson just ends while being frustrated, because most of us are not really prepared to do the moves presented.  Therefore, we need a certain "TRY AND ERROR" section, which might be presented as a certain length of track to do a certain type of choreography.  I think latest releases are successful in this way (thogh I don't know releases like BJ29).

And later weeks, as the lesson goes, the "TRY AND ERROR" section turns into something like, "another variety to learn", even though the choreography is the same, which is the most fun part of doing BJ as a participant.  For me, it occured about 4th week last year, and now about 2nd week.  I want other participants to feel it, as it is really fun.  I guess this feeling would not be experienced by an instructor who has to be prepared before launch of each release.

Therefore, if some participants who look like doing well make complaints to do mix after 4th week, you could tell them confidentlly, just wait for another few weeks.  It will not likely to lose them, much less of losing other quiet participants.  I hope that my post works as some encouragement to you all.

mrrocket:

OK back on topic:

Now Ive been thinking about all of the issues we have been discussing and im really unsure that the problems have anything to do with the complexity levels of BJ but simply the length of the blocks in order to keep it interesting, i really think this is wear the problem lies IMO?

In my eyes, the current format is near perfection actually. The blocks are not that long anymore, running over 3 to 4 songs max, which is enough to really get the feel for the moves, music and style, but not long enough to be repetitive...

I've said before that I don't like to revisit some 30-something releases because they're not cardio enough... While I loved the releases when they first came out, I now much prefer the more recent Jams. This isn't just because of the cardio intensity, but has also got to do with the length of the blocks. Those blocks were LONG (which makes them tough to mix in) and the majority of break-out opportunities were always right at the end (fun, but repetitive!), whereas now you get break-outs all over the place.

So yeah, I sorta hear what you're saying, but I don't think making the blocks shorter than they are now, will be an improvement...

I have been reading this thread and thought I would provide my 2 cents. :)

Okay I started on Jam from 25 as a participant and 31 as an instrctor. I was upset when the new format came out (Jam 33/Jam 34) however, it is alot easier now to teach then in the old format.

 That being said, I love the fact you never know what chorey you are going to get release to release. G experimented all the way through to Jam 39 before he was happy with the chorey. Now I must say I am happy with where it is at the moment. I don't have any front-row diva issues like I did in the old format and it appeals to alot of different people.

Yes it is hard to get people in classes. I do agree, I have just finished a massive promotion which was dedicated to bringing more people in and it worked! But yes we do need to work on it from week to week but that is just how it is. Balance (my other program) sells itself and not as much work is needed but guys you can't compare Jam to other programs cause it is very very different.

The new format (aka Jam 47) is bringing in more people which is fantastic! I very much love the shorter blocks and shorter holding pattens. Members do too. It is brilliant cause when I launched on Wednesday (Jam 50) I had my hard core members asking me how to do the house tap and jungle combo! Now they never would ask that pre 34.

I feel I can do the releases for longer now than before. Yes the music sometimes doesn't appeal and the moves are too slow but it is different release to release to appeal to everyone. There is never going to be one-size fits all.

At least G is experimenting release to release and bringing us new styles and durations and changing the way it all fits together as well. Jam 50 I think is def a breakthrough (possibly the next one after Jam 47).

If Base is too complicated for members then break down some of the combos and go through it with them. Have a mini tech class for ten minutes. I have done this in the past and it really works.

Just a few thoughts and ideas. Happy to discuss. :)  

GreekGoddess:

I have been reading this thread and thought I would provide my 2 cents. :)

Okay I started on Jam from 25 as a participant and 31 as an instrctor. I was upset when the new format came out (Jam 33/Jam 34) however, it is alot easier now to teach then in the old format.

 That being said, I love the fact you never know what chorey you are going to get release to release. G experimented all the way through to Jam 39 before he was happy with the chorey. Now I must say I am happy with where it is at the moment. I don't have any front-row diva issues like I did in the old format and it appeals to alot of different people.

Yes it is hard to get people in classes. I do agree, I have just finished a massive promotion which was dedicated to bringing more people in and it worked! But yes we do need to work on it from week to week but that is just how it is. Balance (my other program) sells itself and not as much work is needed but guys you can't compare Jam to other programs cause it is very very different.

The new format (aka Jam 47) is bringing in more people which is fantastic! I very much love the shorter blocks and shorter holding pattens. Members do too. It is brilliant cause when I launched on Wednesday (Jam 50) I had my hard core members asking me how to do the house tap and jungle combo! Now they never would ask that pre 34.

I feel I can do the releases for longer now than before. Yes the music sometimes doesn't appeal and the moves are too slow but it is different release to release to appeal to everyone. There is never going to be one-size fits all.

At least G is experimenting release to release and bringing us new styles and durations and changing the way it all fits together as well. Jam 50 I think is def a breakthrough (possibly the next one after Jam 47).

If Base is too complicated for members then break down some of the combos and go through it with them. Have a mini tech class for ten minutes. I have done this in the past and it really works.

Just a few thoughts and ideas. Happy to discuss. :)  

some good points and kinda how i feel especially after seeing bits of 50. The cardio funk looks like its gunna be awesome. Like ive always said i think it IS going in the right direction and hope the blocks stay short. I sometimes breakdown the moves and spend more time with participants that need the attention. I do think te shorter blocks will help us re-learn older stuff though.

Okay then to get back on topic, I don't agree that the block lengths need to be adjusted.

I was never jumping up to defend G, I was just jumping up to defend my very full, very popular BodyJam classes. I don't want to see the program change drasitcally, because I'm afraid it will affect my classes. I know some people in some parts of the world are struggling with Jam. Heck, in some other parts of Canada, Jam is dead and gone. Nobody can figure out why - the instructors are quality, the gyms are full and successful - there's almost no rhyme or reason as to why Jam works in my city but flops in the neighbouring province. You can propose ways to fix it, but until you really know what's going on, it's just a lot of trial and error and bandaiding a wound which might not even exist. Maybe people just don't like BodyJam anymore.

There's no easy solution: if they change the format of the program and your classes fill up, that's great for you... but what if it casues mine to collapse? Obviously, I'm going to root for the system that's been working for me, and I'm going to selfishly hope it stays that way, even if it's not working for everyone around the globe.

Similarly, I don't think constant program changes are a good way to ensure the success of a program. I know some RPM instructors and participants who have been frustrated with the ongoing changes to that program (cycle on the beat. Okay now cycle OFF the beat. Okay now we're going back to cycling ON the beat...).

It's a tough one, that's for sure. 

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www.thewellnessshift.com

ErinC:

Okay then to get back on topic, I don't agree that the block lengths need to be adjusted.

I was never jumping up to defend G, I was just jumping up to defend my very full, very popular BodyJam classes. I don't want to see the program change drasitcally, because I'm afraid it will affect my classes. I know some people in some parts of the world are struggling with Jam. Heck, in some other parts of Canada, Jam is dead and gone. Nobody can figure out why - the instructors are quality, the gyms are full and successful - there's almost no rhyme or reason as to why Jam works in my city but flops in the neighbouring province. You can propose ways to fix it, but until you really know what's going on, it's just a lot of trial and error and bandaiding a wound which might not even exist. Maybe people just don't like BodyJam anymore.

There's no easy solution: if they change the format of the program and your classes fill up, that's great for you... but what if it casues mine to collapse? Obviously, I'm going to root for the system that's been working for me, and I'm going to selfishly hope it stays that way, even if it's not working for everyone around the globe.

Similarly, I don't think constant program changes are a good way to ensure the success of a program. I know some RPM instructors and participants who have been frustrated with the ongoing changes to that program (cycle on the beat. Okay now cycle OFF the beat. Okay now we're going back to cycling ON the beat...).

It's a tough one, that's for sure. 

well yeah it really is a postcode thing tbh, i have a class thats rammed in one club and just steady(anything from 8-25 from week to week) in another club it has 35plus every week but the programme is only 6 months old in the busy club?

I guess we all want Jam to be a huge success around the globe and thats why its just as important to listen to the reasons why it isnt working in some clubs as well as the reason why it is working in other clubs.

Erin how long you have been teaching jam at your current gym?

 

I've been teaching 2 Jam classes a week at this particular club since it opened about 2 years ago. They're the most popular/full classes at that club: Jam class averages about 25-28 people (it's a tiiiiiny studio - you could maybe squeeze 35 people in there, max). Pump gets maybe 12-15 per class on average. It's a bit of an anomaly, that's for sure.  

 

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mrrocket:

I keep hearing more and more people saying they are struggling to keep people coming back to their Jam class. Jam seems to do really well when its launched but dies on it *** after like 6months.

For me i have seen numbers go from 40 to 20 to 3 to 10 to 20 to 2 to 30 and it really is hard to keep people coming back and i find that there is so much responsibilty on the instructor to 'sell' the programme and make it different to keep people coming back.

I am now releasing a new release and sticking with it for like 5 weeks then mixing the first block and then mixing like three releases into the last house block to keep it interesting. The other programmes seem to sell themselves without having to change anything to keep people coming back, there is something wrong with Jam's format IMO and the many other instructors i have spoken to.

I mean its soul destroying when numbers are down and you have worked your ass off to learn the chorey and put so much time and effort into making it a great class.

Another reason why its soul destroying is cus unlike BC, with jam if we wanna mix a new block in we have to take hours out of whatever we are doing (working) and re-learn a whole block,with bc and all the other programmes it takes a few minutes to remember the chorey. So you turn up to class full of fresh chorey and enthusiasm and you have like 5 people in your class,your heart just sinks.

And then a new realease......classes good for a bit then numbers drop,regulars get bored and then pressure on the instructor to change things to keep get them back in and the cycle starts again!?

Im realy worried for Jam and what its trying to do. Unless the blocks are shortened and more complex chorey introduced i feel it will fail.

Jam is never EVER going to appeal to the masses like the other programmes and until the programme directors get there head round that they are going to be caught in between the devil and the deep blue see (stuck in the middle trying to please everyone and not pleasing anyone apart from ass licking people who tell em what they wanna hear).

Target those who wanna dance not those who just wanna huge CV workout. Target dancers and those who have the ability to dance and not people who cant dance for *** as they will never be interested. Those who have a basic ability want to be inspired by great dancers and great moves and the better dancers you get in your class the more inspired people(newbies) will be. Its like going into BC or BA and everyone is 300stone overweight, those wanting to be inspired to get into shape will not go back to the class.

It must be working in some clubs but in general everyone i speak to have similar concerns as me.

 

 

I just wanted to say a few things from this first post. 

I can understand that yes most other classes sell themselves, because pump is about bulding muscles combat is martial arts (feel like a fighter) Rpm is a really good workout Body Jam is the dance class. That is what turns people off. for  a long time I only ever got 4 poeple in my class and i didnt know why i asked other member why they wouldnt come they said it was because "it was a dance class and I can't dance".

I think Instructors need to sell this program more! because in honesty at the moment it is just selling as a dance class for dancers, but as instructors you have to get people in to show that it is for everyone.I LOVE bodyjam, more then any other class and i probably put more effort into this then my other programes but to be honest it is worth it. I belive you can not be an instructor if you do not love the programe.

When i first started teaching body Jam like I said no one would come and I thought it was me for a very long time (because i took over another instructor who didn't want to teach it anymore), and I found it very hard to keep regular members, unless they loved the program they wouldn't come. So I had a brainstorm with the GFM and we tried putting up competitions for atending and putting up technique classes and poeple still didnt come. Recently I have found the more over the top i am the more they love it, learning people names and dragging poeple up. Everytime i teach i go around the gym gathering as many poeple as i can telling them how much fun they will have. and with release 50 with the long ending with all those step touches i foudn that aweseom time to congrtualte everyone and go and talk to the new poeple and ask them how they went ask them their names and just chat to them. This is what keep people coming. I have gathered my own little group. 

I have the dear lady (bless her) who from the begining couldn't even do a step touch and i said to her one night stay back if you want and i will slow down some of those tricky moves, she has been coming EVERY time she is getting so much better, still cant do them but she always says to me she only comes because she likes me as an instructor and how energetic i am.

Instructors have a bigger impact then they know. and If you dislike the programe it will come across in your teaching! I think people need to quit complaing about the program and inbrace it a little bit more and make more of an effort to talk to EVERYONE, and do not just favor the poeple who are good at it. 

I know that some of the regulars get bored but with this release i left a lot of the ball changes out because my class just can not do it but now i add them for the regulars so they are getting more advanced and not getting as bored.  so teach the new release as basic as you can then for the people still getting that leave them with that and allow there ones who have to add that little bit more. 

 

 

lil-leah22:

...she has been coming EVERY time she is getting so much better, still cant do them but she always says to me she only comes because she likes me as an instructor and how energetic i am.

This.  I see several Jam participants in New Zealand who are regulars who plain and simple do not know their right from their left, but have a grand time and are there week in, week out.  What keeps them coming back is the energy of the instructors and how good they make them feel

Mmmarshmallow:

This.  I see several Jam participants in New Zealand who are regulars who plain and simple do not know their right from their left, but have a grand time and are there week in, week out.  What keeps them coming back is the energy of the instructors and how good they make them feel

 

Exactly, it all about making each and every participant feel special, like it doesn't matter what you look like all that matters is that you are having fun and keep moving.   and that is the thing with body jam you just have to make sure EVERYONE is having fun. as soon as the fun is gone that's it they wont come back.

lil-leah22:

Mmmarshmallow:

This.  I see several Jam participants in New Zealand who are regulars who plain and simple do not know their right from their left, but have a grand time and are there week in, week out.  What keeps them coming back is the energy of the instructors and how good they make them feel

 

Exactly, it all about making each and every participant feel special, like it doesn't matter what you look like all that matters is that you are having fun and keep moving.   and that is the thing with body jam you just have to make sure EVERYONE is having fun. as soon as the fun is gone that's it they wont come back.

your talking crap. "It does'nt matter what you look like", what you goin on about? You can only do so much as an instructor the rest is down to how good the programme is. G could teach at some of the places i have taught Jam and they would still cut the programme. It just dont work in some places and does in others regardless of how good the instructor is. The fun goes when you after 12 months blood sweat and tears you are jamming to 3 people but still trying to give it everything, they dont come back cus they dont like the programme at some places simple as that.

I think its a little of both. I think Leah's way of building her class is the ideal way to do it and it would have helped my numbers some had I been able to do it...I didn't because my class was in the morning ( there's hardly anyone there to pitch a class to!) and it is also my only class at the gym ( so I don't have much opportunity to cross-promote). It is a good reminder that a class like Jam might well succeed despite the two-left-ness of your participants as long as you can teach it with the pressure off them to perform like "real dancers".

 OTOH, Rocket is correct: This is a tough program to sell in certain gyms! All I can say is that I really envy those of you that have great classes, regardless of whether you did all the heavy lifting in promoting it or whether you had a kick-ass marketing department standing behind you. 

And I think the tweakings to Jam have finally reached a set point with 50, not a moment too soon! Jam is working...just not in my club!

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mrrocket:

Target those who wanna dance not those who just wanna huge CV workout. Target dancers and those who have the ability to dance and not people who cant dance for *** as they will never be interested. Those who have a basic ability want to be inspired by great dancers and great moves and the better dancers you get in your class the more inspired people(newbies) will be. Its like going into BC or BA and everyone is 300stone overweight, those wanting to be inspired to get into shape will not go back to the class.

It must be working in some clubs but in general everyone i speak to have similar concerns as me.

 

 having only done one jam class but enjoying it, i'm completely hearing your concerns... 

 however - if you target only those who can dance you're limiting yourself to a VERY VERY small population... and if you're anything like most dancers (of which i was one) you're not gonna go to a LES MILLS class to dance... you'll go to a ballet (or equivalent) school... i was taken by surprise at the amount of "technical" dance moves were actually in the class... and i guess they're trying to entice people to dancing and build the confidence of those who are too daunted to actually go to a proper dancing school...

also part of the benefit? (disadvantage...?) of LM classes is that participants are free to come and go as they please, which means they need to have a chorey that people can pick up quite quickly, when i was a dancer come hell or high water you were in classes that you were enrolled in each and every day, each and every week... there's a whole lot more flexibility with a program like JAM so i guess you have to take that into account also... 

however i agree that they're a bit in limbo... i guess it's all about the options... people seem not to like it as it seems too "dancey" i have a friend who takes every other freaking LM program under the sun (well attack, combat, pump) and i said that i went to jam and she should try it as it's so much fun, and she said "i dont know.... it looks really hard and complicated i've seen it running and i'm no where near coordinated to do that" and i told her it was rubbish and if she had the coordination to do the other classes then she had the coordination to do jam... so it seems already that people are daunted enough by the chorey let alone targeting it at dancers, and frankly if i still wanted to be a dancer i'd still be at a dance school... as far as concerns for numbers... i have no idea... people are already daunted by the complexity of it... and the "dancers" aren't challenged enough... so... well that's LM's problem :P 

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"This is my body and I can do whatever I want to it. I can push it, study it, tweak it, listen to it. Everybody wants to know what I'm on... What am I on!?! I'm on my bike, busting my ass 6 hours a day. What are you on???"