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I got out my manual and for INITIAL CUES it says :

Feet Flat On The Floor.  Knees bent and higher than the hips to maintain slight inward curve of the lower back.  

For FOLLOW UP CUES it says:

Feet Firmly On The Floor.   Keep Both Feet On The Floor Hip Width Apart. 

 

That is it, there is no feet in the air option listed. The only option listed is for reduced range of motion by lying your whole body on the floor. 

 

I am Certified to teach and currently do teach BODYPUMP!

  My manual was printed in 2006, and in my training we were seriously discouraged to allow feet in the air.  

 

 

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Don't regret doing anything that made you smile!!

So what would you do if someone has lordosis?

See everything is not black or white. :)

Cheers!

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From love and the gift of eternal joy comes peace and love!

Cheers :)

Is anyone else hearing the sound of a dead horse being flogged here?

Might be better to save the horse and ride the cowboy perhaps...

pipera:

So what would you do if someone has lordosis?

See everything is not black or white. :)

I don't know why you are continuing to flog this poor old nag.

"Special cases" need to be treated as precisely that. In other words, if someone is unable to do the standard prescribed technique, they need to discuss modifications with a PT/physio/instructor face-to-face.

You should not be giving advice on-line that deviates from the safe LM prescription.

What would the sensible suggestion be if someone came on here with a back injury? Obviously, we would all recommend they see a professional and get an individual assessment done. We certainly should not go recommending potentially dangerous modifications and put that participant at risk of exacerbating that injury.

Equally, the approach to someone struggling to maintain good technique and avoid pain should be no different.

You've said your piece rather too many times now and it's been roundly rejected by a number of people. For the sake of what little dignity you still have left, please stop now. By continuing, you are just making yourself look ever more and more foolish.

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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fitgirl1:

Is anyone else hearing the sound of a dead horse being flogged here?

I think we're all getting the impression that Rod flogs something else on a very regular basis...

I'm waiting for him to point out that antibiotics are no use as his 1830 medical textbook (used for his Certificate II course, no doubt) proclaims that bloodletting is the best cure for the ague.

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Gym life: participant only. Currently doing Combat, Pump, Attack & Balance. Formerly doing Step & Jam (new gym doesn't carry them).

tiger75:

The title of this topic describes my problem

I have problems during chest tracks. I had pain in the back after this workout.

Some suggest me to cross my legs during chest track.

So any ideas, advices to avoid back pain during this excercise ?

 

Spine is in neutral in both on the feet are on the floor and off the floor;
Spine is also neutral in triceps press when the feet are on the floor and off the floor;
If you do the simple hand test to see of the spine is neutral and that this is safe;

I would also state that if the person has back problems then they need to see what option suits them.

a) Feet on a plate (slight elevation - promoting less stress on the lower back);
b) Feet are placed in the bench (slight elevation - promoting less stress on the lower back);
c) Feet off the floor 90/90 (huge reduction in lower back stress - promoting less stress on the lower back.)
d) On the floor (a valid option for technique correction)

The options a - d are valid.

This forum is so unreal can we please stick to what they ask in future instead of this round after round of argy bargy testosterone alpha male stuff!

tiger75:

Well, Rod, I felt more comfortable and stable with legs down because I challenged quite a lot tonight with heavy weights. With legs up I was unbalanced...

 Now, former BP classes taught with legs up but with Glen, apparently it changed, so I think we should follow his guidelines  because he has a physioterapist team with him.

See problem solved. :) I agree with what Glen says as he is the Product Manager for Bodypump and has a Bachelor Degree is Science, so I trust his judgement 100% no dramas on my behalf and agree with what tiger75 said 100% not wishing to contradict Glen and Bryce and what Les Mills International says. No dramas my side.

However, I will ask around and respond back here accodingly when I get some claification on the issue.

Side issue I do have lordosis and that is also a major issue why I raise my legs to lessen the stress on my lower back. I also have an issue with the teres major and this seems to remove the stress as well.

So feet on the floor is really not an option for me.

You simply cannot say don't when there are do's in the equation.

Cheers!

---

Coming soon a new concept no one has ever done before and it has been in the planning for the past 4 years.

Check out the Latest 1/4 Releases at: Tracklist Central!

Check my profile the truth is out there - X-Files :)

Check out my Training Fitness and Exercise and Higher - University Vocational and Educational Qualifications Here!



From love and the gift of eternal joy comes peace and love!

Cheers :)

*sighs*

(edit)..and now he shouts in red....

and really, don't bother reposting anything else for your own satisfaction of "last worditis" once again.

pipera:

Spine is in neutral in both on the feet are on the floor and off the floor;

No, this is not necessarily the case.

Your statement above should read "Spinal must be kept neutral whether feet are on or off the floor".

pipera:

The options a - d are valid.

Again, no.

There is only one option that we should be promoting on this forum - i.e: the standard LM prescribed technique. How many times do how many people need to say it?

pipera:

I agree with what Glen says as he is the Product Manager for Bodypump ... so I trust his judgement 100% ... not wishing to contradict Glen ... and what Les Mills International says.

And then this strange volte-face.

The numerous instructors who have contributed here have only been re-iterating what Glen has put in the (current) manual and chore notes anyway. Baffling why you argued against them so strongly when they have the latest (i.e: correct) material and you don't.

Anyway, hopefully this is a sign that you will let this one go .... though I'm not holding my breath.

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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pipera:

tiger75:

The title of this topic describes my problem

I have problems during chest tracks. I had pain in the back after this workout.

Some suggest me to cross my legs during chest track.

So any ideas, advices to avoid back pain during this excercise ?

 

Spine is in neutral in both on the feet are on the floor and off the floor;
Spine is also neutral in triceps press when the feet are on the floor and off the floor;
If you do the simple hand test to see of the spine is neutral and that this is safe;

I would also state that if the person has back problems then they need to see what option suits them.

a) Feet on a plate (slight elevation - promoting less stress on the lower back);
b) Feet are placed in the bench (slight elevation - promoting less stress on the lower back);
c) Feet off the floor 90/90 (huge reduction in lower back stress - promoting less stress on the lower back.)
d) On the floor (a valid option for technique correction)

The options a - d are valid.

This forum is so unreal can we please stick to what they ask in future instead of this round after round of argy bargy testosterone alpha male stuff!

tiger75:

Well, Rod, I felt more comfortable and stable with legs down because I challenged quite a lot tonight with heavy weights. With legs up I was unbalanced...

 Now, former BP classes taught with legs up but with Glen, apparently it changed, so I think we should follow his guidelines  because he has a physioterapist team with him.

See problem solved. :) I agree with what Glen says as he is the Product Manager for Bodypump and has a Bachelor Degree is Science, so I trust his judgement 100% no dramas on my behalf and agree with what tiger75 said 100% not wishing to contradict Glen and Bryce and what Les Mills International says. No dramas my side.

However, I will ask around and respond back here accodingly when I get some claification on the issue.

Side issue I do have lordosis and that is also a major issue why I raise my legs to lessen the stress on my lower back. I also have an issue with the teres major and this seems to remove the stress as well.

So feet on the floor is really not an option for me.

You simply cannot say don't when there are do's in the equation.

Cheers!

 

 The fact is I work a lot more my abs in the position of legs up and  there is track 9 for that... so no need to add load on that part.

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE

On topic: 

Many years ago when I was power lifting I used feet in the air on the bench and that was the reason I was given. What you said above.

Off topic:

While you are speaking of track 9 this is what Les Mills say about that track:

Thats officially from Les Mills International everyone

Cheers!

---

Coming soon a new concept no one has ever done before and it has been in the planning for the past 4 years.

Check out the Latest 1/4 Releases at: Tracklist Central!

Check my profile the truth is out there - X-Files :)

Check out my Training Fitness and Exercise and Higher - University Vocational and Educational Qualifications Here!



From love and the gift of eternal joy comes peace and love!

Cheers :)

Yeah, maybe in bodybuilding (power lifting), it is allowed to have feet in the air because you have huge weights.
I'm doing circuits but only butterflies moves on the machine, no power lifting on the bench... lol

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE

pipera:

On topic: 

Many years ago when I was power lifting I used feet in the air on the bench and that was the reason I was given. What you said above

This is not on-topic.

Let's re-examine François's original post:

François:

I have problems during chest tracks. I had pain in the back after this workout.

So, for someone who is still relatively new to BP, you are recommending what is in your words an "advanced option" as a solution for back pain without even asking about, let alone seeing his form. Even though this directly contradicts the recommendations from the people who have designed and run this program.

What if he gets an injury as a result of taking your advice to lift his legs?

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The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

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I will get a massage for my back pain, Rick...

No seriously, no legs up for me...

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Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Fitness Show in Paris : 09/19-20/2009 http://animoto.com/play/0lmvNUk7jNu5XyBwnOiAIA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgv4bVJheBE

pipera:

We have never proposed that the spine is in neutral when doing ab work in supine.

The spine will and should flex slightly so that it flattens into the floor.

This is a very misleading and out of context quote. Where is the rest of this article?

This appears to be directly relating to crunches, which indeed "flex" the torso and will slightly flatten the back into the floor. "Flex" is the operative word here, since the only muscle that causes flexion is Rectus Abdominus, ie. crunches.

This same statement is not valid for leg extentions or hovers and many other exercises where the spine MUST be neutral.

Somebody please take Rod's computer away from him..........or at the very least, cut his internet.

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I have lordosis* as well. I have to work a little harder to keep my back from overarching during tracks where I lay on my back - ab tracks are my worst. Sometimes, on 'bad back days,' it affects the amount of weight I can use for the chest track. But I always keep my feet on the floor.

(*I don't have a Certificate II in Lordosis, though - I'm self-taught...)

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