Community

No, I don't think so but probably her songs match the rythm and chorey of BPs

 Have you listened to her new song : Funkhouse?

I'm quite sure it's gonna be in one of the BP future release.

Any bet?

robinhr:

Are P!nk songs cheaper in some way

Well, if the amount that her management were charging for gig tickets the last time she came to SA is anything to go by, I'd say that's unlikely.

It is possible though that LM negotiated a cheaper bulk deal given how many of her songs have appeared across the various programs recently.

Loppan:

A while back, another forum member suggested that LMI use unsigned artists and make original music for their programs. I thought it was an interesting idea. Would be a dream for any unsigned band, since their music would be so widely spread (and the band would get paid).

Although I suspect some, maybe many, of those tunes would also appeal to the general population and could even become successful (I remember a song from a commercial for a popular soft drink many years ago, that wasn't intended for anything else but became a great hit). Downloading of LMI tracks would increase. That could be a problem. Should LMI then spread that music? Become a record label as well?

Shoot yeah, just ask underground / unsigned artists to provide music.  It could even be made specifically for the exercise.  There are many aspiring musicians out there who would provide music on the cheap, maybe free.  This could be a very good thing, I swear most music that plays on the radio and therefore becomes mainstream is simply a factor of being heard over and over forcing many people to like it.  The music industry doesn't seem to reward talent IMO, just another popularity contest.

As far as selling music, I don't know the rules, but if LMI had the rights to the music they should sell CD's as well, from what I understand they can't sell CD's now because they don't have the right to do it, but why not sell CD's to the masses if you could, it wouldn't hurt the programs a bit. 

I would surely pay to get these good CDs.

There are some unknown releases to me that I would like to have.

HellRazoR:

Loppan:

A while back, another forum member suggested that LMI use unsigned artists and make original music for their programs. I thought it was an interesting idea. ---

Shoot yeah, just ask underground / unsigned artists to provide music.  It could even be made specifically for the exercise.--- 

Yes, it was you who suggested it a while back.

I suspect this is all a little bit more complicated than you might think.

I work for a company that amongst other things produces music for freestyle groupX classes (lets not get into the freestyle vs pre chore argument again!). One of our biggest challenges is finding music that is suitable and available for licensing so that we can re-sell. It is difficult for a record company to give you the license, and even more difficult if the song is remixed or altered, which a lot are.

Add to that the fact that each artist is signed to a different record company, and you need licenses for each record company to reproduce and sell, and things get even more complicated. Then you add in the fact that LM produces music that they need to be able to sell around the whole world, in small quantities. Result? A licensing and copyright nightmare.

I suspect that once they get a license from a certain record company to use their artists they use it to the max to really take advantage of it. Hence why we get a lot of Pink, Cascada, E-Type etc.

And when you talk about number of people buying the music, in reality even though a program like BP is global and there are a lot of instructors, you're still looking at maybe 25000 copies being sold at the very most, and potentially less. When you compare that to the amount of consumers who buy music to listen to (potentially in the tens of millions) the framework of fitness probably seems like small fish to the record companies and as such they can't really be bothered with it. While it doesn't make sense from our perspective as intructors and participants I suspect they just don't realise the potential!

My two cents anyway...

justcallmeryan:

I suspect this is all a little bit more complicated than you might think. 

That does sound complicated, but I would have thought that the various record and distribution companies would be used to negotiating licence agreements given the large number of compilation albums available.

Which only further strengthens the argument in favour of using unsigned, unlicensed or in-house acts. I know this would be no easier in terms of obtaining tracks or subsequent licensing, but the current situation sounds far from perfect either.

However, if the tribunal finds in favour of the PPCA, change may be forced on LM.

robinhr:

Are P!nk songs cheaper in some way...?

Yeah - one free with every Cascada / E-type.

trancendental:

That does sound complicated, but I would have thought that the various record and distribution companies would be used to negotiating licence agreements given the large number of compilation albums available.

I'm inclined to think it gets even more complicated than that. We once wanted to publish a snippet of video from Euromad, a Les Mills gathering, fundraising thingy in the UK. I actually asked LMI if it was possible to obtain permission to publish this video. They informed me that their licensing rights (even for their own program) did not extend as far as publishing on the internet. They informed me that it would only be possible to (legally) publish the video with the sound removed.

As justcallmeryan suggested, they are negotiating for a relatively small amount of copies of the music. My hunch is that in order to get the music at reasonable prices, there are far more restrictions placed..........which would make sense seeing as that the music is for fitness purposes only.

The licence that LMI receives when they purchase a song is very very specific. Basically, no recordings are permitted of Les Mills classes for this reason. Video recording or audio recording of any class is breach of copyright. I assume that there are exceptions in place to permit instructors to tape their videos only for certification.

Any other use of the music would be, for LMI, a breach of copyright.

Staff at LMI once expressed to me their concerns over videos being published on youtube and cd's for sale on ebay. This is technically LMI's responsibility and this breach of copyright could be seen by the music companies.........that COULD result in the music companies refusing to sell licences to LMI in future. This was a couple of years ago now that they said this to me, so I don't know if this is still a concern or if they have worked out other arrangements.

But for those who say "why doesn't LMI just sell the music to everyone"...............it's way way more complicated than that.

trancendental:

justcallmeryan:

I suspect this is all a little bit more complicated than you might think.

That does sound complicated, but I would have thought that the various record and distribution companies would be used to negotiating licence agreements given the large number of compilation albums available.

Which only further strengthens the argument in favour of using unsigned, unlicensed or in-house acts. I know this would be no easier in terms of obtaining tracks or subsequent licensing, but the current situation sounds far from perfect either.

However, if the tribunal finds in favour of the PPCA, change may be forced on LM.

I was involved in ITGRebirth (and Rebirth 2) which are fan made projects for dance video games.  We got the OK to use every song (over 100 songs) in the games just by finding websites where people post their music and asking for permission.  Most people were really cool about it and agreed, or gave us specific songs that we could use (they wanted to show their best work), some even made music just for the project.

In other words, I don't think it's as hard as you think to get permission to use unsigned, unlicensed artists.  Although when your with a company that is for profit, well I bet the artist would like a piece of it, or project was released for free, for the fans. 

HellRazoR:

In other words, I don't think it's as hard as you think to get permission to use unsigned, unlicensed artists.  

Nobody was talking about unsigned artists being difficult to get. In fact, Trancendental was in fact suggesting that very point.

The problem for LMI is making the decision to make such a change considering that one of their "missions" was to include as much original music as possible. This is kinda what was giving them the cutting edge over BTS in the US (who mixes all their own music).

btw, I see you've forgotten about your previous stint and come back after all

misfit:

HellRazoR:

In other words, I don't think it's as hard as you think to get permission to use unsigned, unlicensed artists.  

Nobody was talking about unsigned artists being difficult to get. In fact, Trancendental was in fact suggesting that very point.

The problem for LMI is making the decision to make such a change considering that one of their "missions" was to include as much original music as possible. This is kinda what was giving them the cutting edge over BTS in the US (who mixes all their own music).

btw, I see you've forgotten about your previous stint and come back after all

I haven't forgot you Misfit, I'm only back temporarily (maybe a few more weeks) because I'm now back-injured and trying to get back into BP, well and more importantly I would like to have a full recovery, this site really has some insightful members. 

Interesting conversation, I would have thought that any artist would be happy to have their music released via an alternate format (Exercise to Music) increase public profile. However, the special interest groups (APRA) seem to think they are representing the artists and publishers. They seem not to be doing a good job of it. What is killing their cut is the internet and downloading of files mp3's etc over the internet illegally. So the decide to go after a soft target (ETM) gyms pay the licensing fees based on each song they play. Either from Les Mills or an alternate music source. LMI pays royalties to the artists and recording companies already. They pay this via media sales of their fitness programs. Therefore, APRA wants to double dip (naughty) as LMI already pays back to the recording companies and the artists in royalties.

So APRA feel left out of the picture (tough) you missed the boat. You never imagined that this would turn out so big and you instigated the pricing scheme, so don't (run) off screaming (rip-off) when you missed the boat and now feel (ripped-off) when you instigated the pricing scheme.

So, don't try and strong arm anyone with the legalities of stopping this industry when you clearly are a money grubbing hungry corporation who sees their bottom dollar going (west) when people bypass you and download music and not go to stores and get it so you don't get your cut.

So chase after them (don't) think you are representing the artists when you are only protecting your pay cheque and nothing more or less.

IMO!