BODYPUMP

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

pipera — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:08:04 GMT

Learned knowledge is given and taken.

Learning from others is a gift.

Not learning from others is not growth.

Being humble (in teaching) is rewarding.

Acceptance is both rewarding and leads to improvement.

Knowing this is lifelong learning and life wide learning.

The craft of teaching is an exchange of ideas and methods. Accepting this leads to a better understanding. Mind you over the last year and bit I have changed many things I thought by an exchange of learning ideas from others in many parts of the world. I am better for this and accept with gratitude what they have given me. I am eternally great full for what they have given me and makes me a better educator and teacher.

It is about them not us.

Cheers :)

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

RexFury — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:05:16 GMT

Who'da thunk there'd be so many engineers here?! I'm a retired EE that knew a lot more about unit ops than substations. That's a BSEE, hrumph! I got drafted out of grad school which was the only honorable way out of that awful experience. I wonder how many ppl volunteered for the draft? LOL!

I remember being "concerned" about how well women engineers could perform in the field. I've seen some fine ones! Even married one, a Chem Engine BTW. Hmmm Women engineers with MBAs??? I suppose that's better than women engineers with law degrees.

Rex

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

fitgirl1 — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 04:46:00 GMT

The word "patronising" just came to mind....

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

BillyG — Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:43:28 GMT

jkhill11:
BillyG:

Back in the mid 70's certification was close to free. By comparison today most programs cost 300 or more. While I'm not Mr. Know it All a do see the much higher cost for certification.I have a bacherler and masters degree in EE. What do you have? In 93 I received an accolade for being in the top 5% of duatlaletes. What's your's?

I have a Bachelor of Chemical Engineering and an MBA. And I can spell, type, and proofread. What do any have to do with the discussion at hand?

As to your point on any personal trainer being able to help with the moves in Pump, I am sure you realize that in Pump we modify traditional weight room exercises. For example, our deadlifts are have more knee bend and are not nearly as deep as what I do on the gym floor with my trainer. For him to coach someone in Pump to use that technique could cause an injury due to the speed of the moves and number of repititions in Pump. I go much deeper in squats with my trainer, not so in Pump. These are modifications that we are trained to teach and watch for in our instructor module.

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

I'm glad you have a BSE in Chemical Engineering and MBA meaning you're very educated. I don't doubt you are well qualified to teach BP but that doesn't negate people like myself with more than 30 years in the industry being equally if not better qualified to teach. The only thing stopping me from seeking certification is I have Epilepsy to the tune of 50 or more seizures per day. Not looking for sympathy but understand I've been deep into fitness since age 19 and instructing people for free for over 30 years since that time. Hope you find your involvement in BP rewarding.

Regards, Bill

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

jkhill11 — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 15:54:52 GMT

BillyG:

Back in the mid 70's certification was close to free. By comparison today most programs cost 300 or more. While I'm not Mr. Know it All a do see the much higher cost for certification.I have a bacherler and masters degree in EE. What do you have? In 93 I received an accolade for being in the top 5% of duatlaletes. What's your's?

I have a Bachelor of Chemical Engineering and an MBA. And I can spell, type, and proofread. What do any have to do with the discussion at hand?

As to your point on any personal trainer being able to help with the moves in Pump, I am sure you realize that in Pump we modify traditional weight room exercises. For example, our deadlifts are have more knee bend and are not nearly as deep as what I do on the gym floor with my trainer. For him to coach someone in Pump to use that technique could cause an injury due to the speed of the moves and number of repititions in Pump. I go much deeper in squats with my trainer, not so in Pump. These are modifications that we are trained to teach and watch for in our instructor module.

Jamie

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

fitgirl1 — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:09:03 GMT

I get where both of you are coming from, but think the heat needs to be taken out of the argument.

Billy G, perhaps your post was a little inflammatory and I understand it was not meant to undermine, nor criticise(well, I hope not).

You may have picked the wrong candidate to target as Mlynn has been around too, as have I, but that's not the point.

You're right that LM didn't invent the wheel, resistance training has been around a lot longer than BP. Treading warily on your involvement with "help" for the reasons Rick mentioned would be prudent.

And, without knowing you, or how you present to people, it kind of sounds like you LOVE being asked..to which point, you may as well go and do the module..I'm sure you'd be a great BP instructor!

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

BillyG — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 01:08:46 GMT

mlynn:
BillyG:

BillyG:
mlynn:
Oh I don't have a problem if they want to help a newb get the stuff set up, but weight selection, form, grip, etc is not anyone's milieu except the instructor. That's what we're there for, and it's our responsibility to do it as we learned it. That's why I get there well before class so I can schmooze with the members and talk to the newbs even out in the hall about how to stand and give them the 25 cent "tour" of Pump before we walk into the room.

While I understand where you're coming from I've been doing this stuff since before you were a twinkle in your father's eye. I taught high impact aerobics in the mid 80's and step in the early 90's before the bottom feeders who claim to be the certification authority immerged. There's nothing new about squats, bench press, triceps, biceps, lunges, or floor work I had not done before BP so you flatter yourself thinking Les Mills certification is superior to 30+ years of hard core experience. Most certified physical fitness instructors understand the mechanics of squat, bench press, clean and press, triceps, bicep, lunge, and floor work same or better than you through their own certification programs. If you think only LM instructors are qualified to help newbie’s then I have the names of several cults you might be interested in joining. OK, that was a bit harsh but think about what you said earlier regarding only LM instructors helping newbie’s. I don't teach Spin because I'm not certified yet have cycled competitively outdoors since 1980 and done 2 or more Spin classes per week since 2000. I'm sure the one week certification that Johnny G and Les Mills offers is superior ... NOT! Love your certification but realize there are people like myself with decades more experience who can do as good if not better job of instructing others. Over the past two years I’ve done more than 300 BP classes. It has gotten to the point where I know most of the routines and people in the class flock to me for advice and critique without solicitation because many times I‘m on queue whereas the instructor is not.

I appreciate your comments - especially about my youth, but I also have been around the block a few times, and I really don't give a FIG how long you've been involved in fitness. You are not a LM instructor, so you should stay out of instructing LM classes - even as a "helper". If you want to teach Pump - get certified. I did - and one reason was because I love the program and knew I could do it well - just like you feel you can. Even though I knew TONS about fitness from being a trainer, being a participant in group exercise since the leg-warmer days, a college athlete and competitive runner for most of my life, I never would have thought to usurp the instructor's position in a class.Your instructors deserve your respect. If they stink - act appropriately. Talk to management, get certified, and get on the schedule.

AND - don't be mean. The slam about cults was inappropriate. You sir, were rude. I said nothing to deserve that backlash. Honestly - I do this because I love it - not to be treated shabbily by Mr. Know It All.

Mylynn, it was not my intent to discredit your LM certification but rather to argue against any dogmatic belief that LM is the ONLY way someone can become competent in instructing exercises performed during BP. I never usurp an instructor even on the rare occasions where they can't keep on beat. My only point is the moves seen in BP are not unique to BP so there are many people not certified in BP who are qualified to instruct each move. Most people certified as physical trainers are examples of people who could instruct any of the weight movements found in BP.

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

pipera — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:12:00 GMT

Essentially, tell the gym to buy more weights, bars and steps. If they don't then you know how much they value you as a paying member of their fitness center. Pass the word around that they run a less than customer serviced business.

BTW: it happens at 1/4's and on more occasions that I can think off.

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

BillyG — Sun, 19 Jul 2009 02:23:39 GMT

Back in the mid 70's certification was close to free. By comparison today most programs cost 300 or more. While I'm not Mr. Know it All a do see the much higher cost for certification.I have a bacherler and masters degree in EE. What do you have? In 93 I received an accolade for being in the top 5% of duatlaletes. What's your's?

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

mlynn — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:42:50 GMT

BillyG:
BillyG:
mlynn:
Oh I don't have a problem if they want to help a newb get the stuff set up, but weight selection, form, grip, etc is not anyone's milieu except the instructor. That's what we're there for, and it's our responsibility to do it as we learned it. That's why I get there well before class so I can schmooze with the members and talk to the newbs even out in the hall about how to stand and give them the 25 cent "tour" of Pump before we walk into the room.

While I understand where you're coming from I've been doing this stuff since before you were a twinkle in your father's eye. I taught high impact aerobics in the mid 80's and step in the early 90's before the bottom feeders who claim to be the certification authority immerged. There's nothing new about squats, bench press, triceps, biceps, lunges, or floor work I had not done before BP so you flatter yourself thinking Les Mills certification is superior to 30+ years of hard core experience. Most certified physical fitness instructors understand the mechanics of squat, bench press, clean and press, triceps, bicep, lunge, and floor work same or better than you through their own certification programs. If you think only LM instructors are qualified to help newbie’s then I have the names of several cults you might be interested in joining. OK, that was a bit harsh but think about what you said earlier regarding only LM instructors helping newbie’s. I don't teach Spin because I'm not certified yet have cycled competitively outdoors since 1980 and done 2 or more Spin classes per week since 2000. I'm sure the one week certification that Johnny G and Les Mills offers is superior ... NOT! Love your certification but realize there are people like myself with decades more experience who can do as good if not better job of instructing others. Over the past two years I’ve done more than 300 BP classes. It has gotten to the point where I know most of the routines and people in the class flock to me for advice and critique without solicitation because many times I‘m on queue whereas the instructor is not.

I appreciate your comments - especially about my youth, but I also have been around the block a few times, and I really don't give a FIG how long you've been involved in fitness. You are not a LM instructor, so you should stay out of instructing LM classes - even as a "helper". If you want to teach Pump - get certified. I did - and one reason was because I love the program and knew I could do it well - just like you feel you can. Even though I knew TONS about fitness from being a trainer, being a participant in group exercise since the leg-warmer days, a college athlete and competitive runner for most of my life, I never would have thought to usurp the instructor's position in a class.Your instructors deserve your respect. If they stink - act appropriately. Talk to management, get certified, and get on the schedule.

AND - don't be mean. The slam about cults was inappropriate. You sir, were rude. I said nothing to deserve that backlash. Honestly - I do this because I love it - not to be treated shabbily by Mr. Know It All.

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

BillyG — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 03:10:58 GMT

Agreed the current instructor should not be undermined regardless of their ability so I try to make a point of asking members to consult them rather than myself. Your point about liability is well taken and on the few occations where an instructor has failed to show have refused to lead a class on the basis that myself and the gym would not be covered for liability. On the few occasions where I give advice I always end by saying "This is how I do it. You should check with an instructor to make sure it's correct." Doubt that helps with liability but at least the person knows they aren't receiving directions from a certified instructor.

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

trancendental — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 02:44:21 GMT

BillyG:

If you think only LM instructors are qualified to help newbie’s then I have the names of several cults you might be interested in joining. OK, that was a bit harsh but think about what you said earlier regarding only LM instructors helping newbie’s.

The key point here is not whether you are able to coach technique etc, but rather whether you should be coaching etc .....

The gym will carry liability insurance to cover against participant injury under instruction, and most will also specify that instructors hold personal liability insurance too.

Hypothetical scenario - you give advice to a fellow participant and they injure themselves. Unless you also have insurance, it's open season for the lawyers.

Another aspect is that the instructor has to be seen as the "leader" of the class. It is not appropriate to undermine their authority as they will lose trust with the class. I'm sure it's very flattering having "people in the class flock to me for advice and critique" but this would suggest that there is deeper problem, if participants are going to you for advice instead of the instructor.

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

BillyG — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 00:38:58 GMT

BillyG:
mlynn:
Oh I don't have a problem if they want to help a newb get the stuff set up, but weight selection, form, grip, etc is not anyone's milieu except the instructor. That's what we're there for, and it's our responsibility to do it as we learned it. That's why I get there well before class so I can schmooze with the members and talk to the newbs even out in the hall about how to stand and give them the 25 cent "tour" of Pump before we walk into the room.

While I understand where you're coming from I've been doing this stuff since before you were a twinkle in your father's eye. I taught high impact aerobics in the mid 80's and step in the early 90's before the bottom feeders who claim to be the certification authority immerged. There's nothing new about squats, bench press, triceps, biceps, lunges, or floor work I had not done before BP so you flatter yourself thinking Les Mills certification is superior to 30+ years of hard core experience. Most certified physical fitness instructors understand the mechanics of squat, bench press, clean and press, triceps, bicep, lunge, and floor work same or better than you through their own certification programs. If you think only LM instructors are qualified to help newbie’s then I have the names of several cults you might be interested in joining. OK, that was a bit harsh but think about what you said earlier regarding only LM instructors helping newbie’s. I don't teach Spin because I'm not certified yet have cycled competitively outdoors since 1980 and done 2 or more Spin classes per week since 2000. I'm sure the one week certification that Johnny G and Les Mills offers is superior ... NOT! Love your certification but realize there are people like myself with decades more experience who can do as good if not better job of instructing others. Over the past two years I’ve done more than 300 BP classes. It has gotten to the point where I know most of the routines and people in the class flock to me for advice and critique without solicitation because many times I‘m on queue whereas the instructor is not.

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

BillyG — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:35:19 GMT

mlynn:
Oh I don't have a problem if they want to help a newb get the stuff set up, but weight selection, form, grip, etc is not anyone's milieu except the instructor. That's what we're there for, and it's our responsibility to do it as we learned it. That's why I get there well before class so I can schmooze with the members and talk to the newbs even out in the hall about how to stand and give them the 25 cent "tour" of Pump before we walk into the room.

Re: Unable to obtain adequate weights

mlynn — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:34:42 GMT

Oh I don't have a problem if they want to help a newb get the stuff set up, but weight selection, form, grip, etc is not anyone's milieu except the instructor. That's what we're there for, and it's our responsibility to do it as we learned it. That's why I get there well before class so I can schmooze with the members and talk to the newbs even out in the hall about how to stand and give them the 25 cent "tour" of Pump before we walk into the room.