RPM vs. Spinning

Last post 10-24-2013, 8:49 AM by z942785. 30 replies.

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  •  05-06-2008, 11:36 AM 29233

    RPM vs. Spinning

    I recently had the opportunity to take a RPM class at the gym in Glendale, AZ. This was my frist experince with RPM in the past I did Spinning from Mad Dog Fitness.

     Here is what I found -

    The Good -  

    RPM has concistancy

    Great intro to Spin for begginers

    The Bad -

    It's for Begginers

    Stretching during the class 

    Lots of resting

    Spinning -  

    I found Spinning was intence, took me 90 days before I could truly attack a class. I was yawning in RPM.

    I would suggest or maybe my club doesn't offer it, a class for power riders. Spinning has "Race Day" an intence 60 min class. I avg 156 rate heart over an hour on a Race Day workout.

     

     

     

     

  •  05-07-2008, 1:58 AM 29258 in reply to 29233

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    It teach both RPM and freestyle classes and to be honest they are both as hard as each other. I find that the spinners do not use the resistance as much as RPMers. Those rests (and if you have done the last 2 releases there aren't so many now!), should be needed if you are using the resistance and levels correctly.

    I had a few spinners say the same, but now they admit that RPM is a tough class as they are using the resistance control better in the levels. At the end of the day if someone isn't challenged or finds any cycle class easy it's their fault as the participant is in charge of the resistance control, not the instructor or the designer of the programme! Of course, the instructor's ability as a motivational tool and a good soundtrack makes a difference! Wink

  •  05-07-2008, 12:18 PM 29290 in reply to 29233

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    Racedayspinner:

    It's for Begginers

    Are you kidding? That resistance knob on the bike? It turns to the right.

     

    As someone about to go through RPM training, who has also been a Spinning instructor, I believe the pros and cons are the following:

    Note: because Spinning profiles are written by the instructor, these are generalisations and there are always exceptions to the rule! (Duh.)

    • In Spinning, so much depends on the actual instructor. Absolutely phenomenal instructor = great class. The amount of effort that goes into writing a fantastic profile would shock you. But - most Spinning instructors don't have that much time to spend on each profile. The RPM choreographers spend months to perfect a profile and all an RPM instructor has to do is learn it and deliver it well. No Spinning instructor can spend that amount of time on a profile, it's just not feasible.
    • RPM, yes the instructor is important. Of course they are. But even if they are boring, so long as they coach you through the choreography, you can have a better workout than a poor Spinning one, because someone else has written the choreography. i.e. Poor Spinning instructor = poor profile = poor workout. Poor RPM instructor = still great profile but boring or annoying instructor = but still great workout so long as they guide you through the choreography.
    • More musical variety in RPM within one class. In Spinning, most instructors pick the style they like or at least within a range of what they like. RPM intentionally tries to vary the style from track to track. Glen or Dan may hate a song but they use it because it works and creates a musical contrast. So you're more likely to find that you like at least a one of the songs. You might go to a Spinning class and just plain hate all the music the instructor uses. (Other way around applies too of course. If a Spinning instructor and you have the same tastes, you'll probably be happier with the overall class music than an RPM release.)
    • More musical variety in Spinning from class to class or week to week. Most Spinning instructors teach a new profile every class/week or at least mix them each class (at least those that I know.) RPM you may do the same release for a few classes or weeks.
    • BUT: riding the same ride again means you know where the work is, when to push, and when to pull back. The more familiar you get with a release, the harder you should be working (until you reach the point of boredom with that release.) So personally, I would prefer RPM.
    • RPM is better at working with the music. Music can inspire you to go harder, faster, longer, or back off, based on what is happening with the song. 99.9% of Spinning instructors don't know their music well enough to truly match their profile to the song. E.g. a Spinning profile will tell you "ok in this song we're doing sprints". An RPM profile times those sprints beautifully to the rises and falls in the music, so even if you are exhausted, when that music picks up, you find your legs are going even when you thought they had nothing left. I am yet to see a Spinning instructor pull off sprints timed to the music the way that RPM does them. And its frustrating as a participant to hear the music going fast and you're recovering, then it slows down and they say "Ok sprint!" Um, no.
    • Better training for RPM. Spinning training is one day where you learn nothing. Seriously. You ride for maybe one hour at most, they barely teach you anything, hand you a book and tell you to take a multiple choice test. If you're lucky, you learn a lot from other instructors, but the training day (note, one day) itself is terrible. Les Mills trainings not only kick the crap out of you physically, but they are much more safety and technique conscious, which gets passed down to participants. If your instructor is safer, your class will be safer. They also teach you how to teach.
    • Better quality control of instructors for RPM. Spinning has very little in the way of certification that isn't via an online test or workshop that doesn't actually ever evaluate your own technique or assess you actually teaching. RPM makes you get certified via video to see whether you're actually a good instructor, and whether you are showing role model technique. Again, comes down to safety.
    • Note also: Most clubs don't teach Spinning the way they are supposed to. It should be a 40 minute class, most clubs (including my own) make it a 60 minute class. So duh, of course you'll burn less calories in an approx 45 minute RPM class compared with a 60 min Spinning class.
    • RPM is, in my opinion, more true to road riding than most Spinning classes. (Not all, there are great Spinning instructors who are true to the road, of course.) But seriously, 1/1 jumps? Who on earth does that on a real bike?!
    • RPM is a better interval training class than most Spinning classes. Most Spinning profiles are steady state (e.g. climb for 5 minutes, flat roads for 5, etc, etc, etc.) Again, exceptions to the rule.

    There are way more but that is just my opinion about a few things. Don't get me wrong, there are some awesome Spinning instructors out there and great classes, and crap RPM instructors, but I believe the overall comparison, RPM wins. Hence why I quit teaching Spinning and started teaching RPM! It is a stronger program, IMHO.

    However, as far as I'm concerned, anyone getting off the couch and into the gym rocks and therefore, it doesn't matter where your preference is, so long as you enjoy the activity you're doing!

     

    Oh and just to comment on one thing:  

    Racedayspinner:

    I would suggest or maybe my club doesn't offer it, a class for power riders. Spinning has "Race Day" an intence 60 min class. I avg 156 rate heart over an hour on a Race Day workout.

    Yes, you will burn a truckload of calories in a Race Day profile. I've taught them. But it's preceeded by months of preparation and training, including a long period of endurance rides where your HR needs to stay below 75% and you burn very few calories in a class, and a Race Day should only ever be taught once ever few months. It is not an every day thing and is not safe as such. Therefore, it's a little unfair to compare RPM against one Spinning ride you'll only do once every three months.

  •  05-07-2008, 12:19 PM 29291 in reply to 29290

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    Ooops. Didn't realise I wrote so much. Embarrassed
  •  05-07-2008, 2:17 PM 29300 in reply to 29290

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    I have never done RPM before, but the gym I'm joining when I go to uni has it, so no doubt I will become a regular RPMer.  I have been spinner for a while now, so was worried about changing to RPM incase I don't like it, so when I saw this thread I thought it would be interesting to see what other spin turned RPM intructors/participants thought.

    Michela002:

    • In Spinning, so much depends on the actual instructor. Absolutely phenomenal instructor = great class. The amount of effort that goes into writing a fantastic profile would shock you. But - most Spinning instructors don't have that much time to spend on each profile. The RPM choreographers spend months to perfect a profile and all an RPM instructor has to do is learn it and deliver it well. No Spinning instructor can spend that amount of time on a profile, it's just not feasible.

    All my instructors do this as a full time job, so I think this helps as it means they have more time to find music.

    Michela002:

    • RPM, yes the instructor is important. Of course they are. But even if they are boring, so long as they coach you through the choreography, you can have a better workout than a poor Spinning one, because someone else has written the choreography. i.e. Poor Spinning instructor = poor profile = poor workout. Poor RPM instructor = still great profile but boring or annoying instructor = but still great workout so long as they guide you through the choreography.

    Like i said I haven't done RPM but I can probably agree with you on this one, as I have been to the odd class where an instructor was covering, and she clearly didn't want to be there (and her music was AWFUL-although obviously that just my opinion...but i really don't know who would like spinning to salsa music!!) and i don't think there was even one drop of sweat on my bike. 

    Michela002:

    • More musical variety in RPM within one class. In Spinning, most instructors pick the style they like or at least within a range of what they like.

    I see what you mean, but I'm lucky in that I love pretty much all the music my instructors play (all 3 have similar tastes), however i understand that obviously not everyone will like what they play.  On the other hand, one of the instructors is very good at taking requests and playing a variety of music, and if she knows someone hates a particular song she won't play it (or at least not when that person is there).

    Michela002:

    • RPM is better at working with the music. Music can inspire you to go harder, faster, longer, or back off, based on what is happening with the song. 99.9% of Spinning instructors don't know their music well enough to truly match their profile to the song. E.g. a Spinning profile will tell you "ok in this song we're doing sprints". An RPM profile times those sprints beautifully to the rises and falls in the music, so even if you are exhausted, when that music picks up, you find your legs are going even when you thought they had nothing left. I am yet to see a Spinning instructor pull off sprints timed to the music the way that RPM does them. And its frustrating as a participant to hear the music going fast and you're recovering, then it slows down and they say "Ok sprint!" Um, no.

    My instructors are very good at listening to and working with the music, and tend to choreograph around it.  They also know their music very well, i.e. when its approx half way through, when to start counting down for change of position, or counting to the end etc...which I just like cos it shows theyve put a bit of time and effort in and haven't just turned up to class with any random music.

    The thought of having to leave my gym does worry me cos i know I'm extremely lucky in having such great instructors, and from what I have heard people say about RPM being easier, I was not looking forward to switching.  However, you have put forward some good points and I think I am a little more open to RPM now, as at least I know that if the instructors are crap, then like you said the actual class will still give me a good work out (providing I can push myself)!!

    p.s. having just read the class format in the RPM section, can I just ask, what is the difference between a hill climb and mountain climb.  And where does the choreography part come in, I mean, is it things like changing position and resistance, or do participants jsut change when they like? and also, is one track say just a hill, or just a spin, or do you do difference things within one track?

    p.p.s Iv just read through my post, and I don't mean to sound like I'm boasting about my instructors lol Stick out tongue

  •  05-07-2008, 2:30 PM 29302 in reply to 29300

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    It is great that you have dedicated instructors Big Smile And like I said, it's not all Spinning is crap and RPM is great, not at all. There are absolutely phenomenal Spinning instructors too.

    Regarding knowing the music, having done both (i.e. taught LM programs and Spinning) I was one of those people who knew my music for Spinning and tried to work with it but it's was never the same level of knowledge as I had of my BodyPump or BodyCombat music. When you change a profile every week, you can't listen to the music as much as you will listen to LM music over and over for weeks or months! But I do agree that some Spinning instructors do a great job matches the choreo to the music.

    I know I used to find it frustrating spending hours (literally) putting together a profile and it just not working perfectly. I love that in RPM someone will have done that for me! (And have spent months doing it.)

    I will let someone else answer your hill vs mountain climb question. I'm familiar with RPM from riding it a lot (to prep for training) and Spinning from teaching it, but my RPM instructor training isn't for one more week so I'll defer to the experts (or answer you in two weeks!!!)

    In terms of choreography, think of it this way - it involves when to add resistance, what position to be in, what speed your legs should be going, etc. So no, there is not one big long hill (like you might do in Spinning.) There will be more variety within a song than that. E.g. the current release, say track 7 for example. You start in the saddle and add resistance every 32 counts. After approx 4 or so adds, you come out into a standing climb and add about four more shots of resistance. Takes you to your max, you drop back a bit and go back to the saddle, kind of repeat this again, but in the middle there is a bit of speed work. They even guide you as in your legs should be moving at the beat of the music/half that speed/etc (but your instructor likely won't direct you that you have to be doing  that, they'll just give you feedback that tells you how fast to aim, e.g. go for your top pace, back off, etc. I tend to follow the instructor and see if I'm keeping pace. And follow the beat.) Make sense?

    Glad to hear you're going to give RPM a go Wink Honestly if you like indoor cycling and you're a LM fan already you'll love it! And RPM is only easier if you make it easy! If you do it right, damn it's tough! The aim: to get to the end of class feeling like "oh thank god this is only 45 minutes, I can't ride anymore." HAHA!

  •  05-07-2008, 5:02 PM 29315 in reply to 29233

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    I teach both and find that each program has its place. I am bothered that you think that RPM is just for beginners.  If truth be known, you get out of a ride what you put in to it.  I make sure that my participants understand that.  If they tell me that the RPM ride is not challenging enough, I let them know that it is THEIR responsibilty to add the load.  I certainly cannot do it for them.  And if they are honest with their resistance, then approximate 45 min allotted for RPM is definitely enough time.  Even my own profile rides run about or just over 40 min, and it's certainly enough (this I had learned from the Spinning cert). 

    I teach mainly RPM, but about once a month, I'll teach a freestyle class.  I have to admit that I prefer RPM because of much of the previously mentioned reasons:  music is provided, research done in creating profiles, familiarity with the releases gives participants that opportunity to challenge themselves because they know what to expect.  It takes a lot of pressure off me.  I don't have many hours to spend to create my own profiles.  So when that week comes that I'll present another profile, my participants find it to be a special treat (like gold... my goodness, they really like getting their butts kicked with my strength rides!)

    I truly appreciated RPM when I went through the training.  Talk about a very humbling experience.  I did the Spinning cert, and it was about 9 hours.  Only rode for an hour, if that much (I can't remember).  I learned that I needed to work on my aerobic base on my own, and take the exam and mail it in.  Not much in the way of feedback or critique; gave me the impression that just anybody could become certified for Spinning.

    In RPM, we ride the master class. Then, you learn the components you need to acquire to create that fitness magic in your class: breaking down choreography, technique, working on coaching.... Both days we are assigned to teach tracks, and filmed those days while teaching it (EW!).  But I certainly learned that I wasn't as strong a rider as I had thought I was.  But that's what's great about the training.  The feedback I received helped me very much.  And anyone who has gone through training knows about the "Race of Truth."  That is just plum sadistic (j/k I loved it!!)  Then it came time for the taping.  Man, that was nerve-racking!!!  I knew I had to tape again when I ended Track 7 in a SEATED CLIMB!!!

    RPM has truly helped me to develop my skills as an effective instructor.  I have carried over what I learned from RPM to my freestyle rides; I learned how to coach better. 

    Now I'm just rambling... but the main point is that if you did not feel challenged by an RPM ride, you need to TURN IT UP!  (the dial, that is)

  •  05-07-2008, 8:21 PM 29327 in reply to 29302

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    Just a humble opinion from an addicted fan of both RPM and Spinning (or at least the instuctors in my gym) - I enjoy both, but for different reasons.  As mentioned in many posts already, with RPM, you get to know the songs and know when to push and hold back.  This has helped me learn to push myself to the limits knowing I'll get a recovery song later.  And as our RPM instructors always say - it's "your ride" and turning the red knob is "your job".  It's my goal to "max out" the red knob in Track 7 every ride - something about doing that gives me a high.

    As with Spinning - the instuctors in my gym are absolutely fantastic.  The variety of music is always much more diverse than RPM, and the timing and coaching blends perfectly with the music.  And I enjoy some of the unique moves our instructors have us do - like doing a seated climb while sitting straight up with our hands behind our back trying not to move our upper body.  Very intense leg workout!  But I guess I'm lucky because I can certainly understand if the instructor sucked, the class would also.

    BTW - some of the instructors in my gym teach in other gyms accross down and teach what they refer to as Transitions Spinning - but for whatever reason, my particular gym won't let them call it that.  But they teach much of the same content, but just call it regular spinning.  Does anyone have any more information on exactly what Transitions Spinning is?  The ones who teach that are the best of the best.


    Don't think you can, KNOW you can!!
  •  05-08-2008, 8:32 AM 29372 in reply to 29233

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    Wow, great posts!  Everyone has hit on excellent points on both programs.  I, too, formerly taught Johnny G Spinning for ~ 7 years.  I loved the program, had packed classes, really embraced the entire Spinning 'thing'; trained with Johnny G; went to conferences, etc.  Then a new gym opened close to my home Wink so I decided to teach there.  They were teaching RPM. I had no idea what it was, but thought it couldn't be 'that' different than Spinning.  So, I went to the 2 day certification completely naive, having never taken an RPM class.  Oh my gosh...like others have said, I learned so much and the physical demands were intense! And learning the choreography scared me to death!  I was used to creating my own profiles!

    And I will admit that I had a chip on my shoulder, already pre-judging that I wouldn't like it as much as Spinning.  But, I decided to be open-minded and to give it my best, really embrace it for 1 year, then if I didn't like it, I'd teach Spinning.

    Fast forward 10 months...now I LOVE RPM!  I agree, both are great programs, but they are different.  Both have their strengths, but I'll also agree that RPM takes the 'bad instructor/bad music' out of the loop more.

    As for RPM being for beginners, that made me laugh.  I always worry a bit when I have beginners, fearing that they'll think that it's too hard and they won't come back!  I plead with them to 'make it their ride'; rest whenever they want; don't follow the crowd; don't compete.  Just like in Spinning, the participant is in control of the intensity, but the instructor can definitely motivate a group to work a little harder.

    I believe RPM is generally 'safer' due to the pre-selected music (at the correct RPM) and choreography.  No cadence checks are needed because we ride to the beat of the music.  I can't tell you how many Spinning classes that I've attended where the climbing beat was way too slow!  Now, great Spinning instructors are aware of that, but most just pick the music that they like whether it's too slow or not.   

    My biggest fear when starting with RPM was thinking that I'd get bored teaching the same profile week after week after week.  That is not the case at all now, due to the change in music, change in chorey. In fact, it actually helps riders know how to gauge their work, since they know a little more about what to expect - when to work hard, when to rest.

    For me, the difference in Track 3 (hills) and Track 7 (mtns) is the time (Track 3 is shorter in length) and the intensity.  I follow the Perceived Exertion (PE) cues on each track, and both will take you to 'breathless'.  I encourage my riders to approach Track 7 as being in the mountains (steeper) so more work.  It's also the last song of the ride so there's no need to hold back...'Empty the Tank'!

    I'd encourage you to be open-minded and really try RPM for several months, with different instructors, before writing it off.  I'll be surprised if you are disappointed!
     

     

     

  •  05-08-2008, 3:37 PM 29387 in reply to 29327

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    gbabb:

    And I enjoy some of the unique moves our instructors have us do - like doing a seated climb while sitting straight up with our hands behind our back trying not to move our upper body. 

    This, unfortunately, highlights one of the things that, IMO, is a failing of the Spinning program - instructors can do whatever they want. That move is absolutely not approved by the Spinning program and their teachings, and is not one they vouch for as safe. However, there is very little continuing ed or quality assurance of Spinning instructors (multiple choice exam! And optional workshops) the way there is for video certification for RPM, so instructors are more free to do whatever they want, safety be damned.

    I'm not saying "RPM instructors" can't go off on a tangent and totally ignore the program and teach whatever they want (they can, of course that means they're not exactly RPM instructors are they?!) but I feel like it's more obvious and more easily monitored within a club setting, and thus harder to get away with. Plus why would you since someone delivers you choreo every three months? Seems pointless to go off and do your own thing.

    But the things you hear about "Spinning" instructors doing are astouding. Cadences way too low. Isolation work like remaining rigid. Removing seats so participants can't sit! Standing climbs that go on way too long. (Who needs to spend 10 minutes out of the saddle?!) 1/1 jumps. The list goes on ... The Spinning program does not condone these but since no one polices it, participants don't know. And because instructors write the profile themselves, participants would have more trouble spotting that "hey this instructor isn't doing it right, like all the others do."

    I like the safety and security that comes with Les Mills programs. Someone monitors and tests these programs.

    And, as I mentioned, those types of practices have nothing to do with what you would do on the road! Would you seriously ride your road bike without a saddle or stay completely stationary with the upper body sitting straight up etc? If not, why do it in a Spinning class? If the argument is "that makes it more intense", here's an alternative example. BodyPump is a weight training program. We use authentic weightlifting moves. Sure, we could "raise the intensity" in terms of heart rate by doing jumping jacks or sprints between tracks. But that's not weight training, and not authentic. Cycling programs should be the same, if you ask me.

    Oh and as an FYI. It's also worth keeping in mind that in some countries/states, a group x instructor needs no other qualification besides the program's. i.e. In the US, a Spinning instructor doesn't have to have any certificates that say they know anything about physiology, safe exercises, etc. They just have to go to the Spinning training (which I've already mentioned is barely anything) and voila, teach whatever you want. So if they don't know anything about safety ... It's risky. RPM, on the other hand, someone choreographing the programs is concerned with safety and has that training.

    Again, I'll reiterate - there are some fantastic Spinning instructors and RPM isn't perfect either. But I get comfort from the quality control over Les Mills programs that I feel other programs lack.

  •  05-08-2008, 6:46 PM 29396 in reply to 29387

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    Basically I see it like this.........

     With all Les Mills programs there is a specific 'science' behind their programs in terms of content (ex phys, biomechanics etc) and delivery (coaching). With freestyle classes they rely on the instructor to create, develop etc....based on their knowledge and experiences. When comparing the two, freestyle simply lacks credibility. As for spin where there are other 'pre-choreographed' programs around the place......I feel it is still the same. I really trust the team behind the content of all Les Mills programs and coming from an exercise science background myself, this is why Les Mills is number one!

  •  05-09-2008, 12:24 PM 29424 in reply to 29233

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    Well first of all I would like to say I appreciate all the great feedback. The one thing that I seem to here over and over is, regardless of program 80% is still the instructor.

     I teach a class where people line up for an hour before hand to take the class, 31 bikes and typically 41 riders. The class beats with energy that that is even amazing to me. I would like to experience a RPM class like this ... I'm up for a road trip, so if you’re a top 10% instructor that teaches a class like this please post the name of your facility and the time you teach, I'm make the trip. I want to try a great RPM class. There are about 20 bikes at the RPM facility I workout at and 6 to 8 students at most.

     

     

    As for some other topics of discussion in posts:

     - No Seat? This is typically a Spin Studio Class - Advanced only. It's called "drop seat" and it not for the faint at heart. Does it make is difference the seat is down, as we all know not really, but it's something you can tell your friends.

     - Madd Dog's training? Well, my class was an all day 10 hour class. We did 4 rides and I was dead by the fourth. I know someone posted they didn't ride much in there Spinning Training, I would guess you had one hung over instructor. As far as Jump’s or push up’s on the handle bars, I agree, its crap and I don’t use it.

     - 40 min class? Well for me 40 min just doesn't cut it. I teach a full 60 min with warm up and I'm not stretching during the class. What's up with that anyway? I'm a competitive athlete, raced bikes, competitive speed skater, played college B-Ball, Pro-Beach Volleyball - We stretch out before a event and after ... never during unless you haven't been in a gym in 10 years. To be honest my students love my 90 min class I teach once every 60 days – I don’t get these 30 and 40 min classes, unless of course they are for beginners.

    - Music - WOW ... I hate to say it, here is a really challenge. And I will say if RPM does a great job putting music together they are helping out the 80 to 90% that have no music taste. I'm a music junky, $2000 in iTunes would tell you I'm mixing the latest and greatest. I work on a class for a month before I putting it to my students. I take classes routines and use them for my own workouts. When they flow just right, the music works, then I release them. And it takes hours.  I went to a class where an instructor tried to tell the class to attack “Say a little pray for me” You remember “My Best Friend’s Wedding”? only ½ the class walked out.

     - Resistance - I remember when I use to tell my students if you not getting a good workout it's your fault, use more resistance. I agree with this in part. We have climbers and we have sprinters. My climbers love to pack on resistance and pound at 50-60 RPM, my sprinters like to kick it standing up at 130-140 RPM's off the seat. One of the biggest tasks in a class is addressing Beginners to Advance and making your climbers and sprinters both happy.

    How do I do it in Spinning? I save my back rows for beginners and set my advanced in the front row. I have my beginners at a slower cadence my advanced "stepping out" or at a faster cadence through most of the routine. As well I get off the bike, I work the room, after all it's their class, not yours. I believe that cadence is as important and resistance. All my songs are set so that students should be on the same cadence regardless of resistance based on there ability. I have advance take off first during sprints and have beginners join ½ into the sprint. I know it may sound complex, but it works.

    What it looks like to me is RMP is a Fat Burning Class? Where maybe I like to teach a cardio class? I love the speed. I like the intensity. I will put my advanced riders to a 2 min sprint and they love me for it.  Speed on a bike takes balance, coordination and strength. A seated sprint at 200 RPM’s or standing at 160 is for elite riders and maybe that is where I’m not quite getting from point A to point B. Maybe RPM is for the masses and I’m looking for something to challenge me?

  •  05-09-2008, 7:06 PM 29435 in reply to 29233

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

     No Seat? This is typically a Spin Studio Class - Advanced only. It's called "drop seat" and it not for the faint at heart. Does it make is difference the seat is down, as we all know not really, but it's something you can tell your friends.

    Ok-I'll bite.  Why in the world would anyone in their right mind EVER do THIS??  I'm a roadie AND teach freestyle and this is totally IC move no matter who you're certified with.  I've ridden with the best and no one I know (I ride in Lance Armstrong's back yard) would ever ride outdoors like this OR train indoors like this.  I agreed with you on most points of your OP-but some of what you said on the last post turned me off TOTALLY. If you're attending a true MD/Spinning I can tell you that no saddle is not taught.  I've been in the ndustry 15(+) years- I took the FIRST MDA class and am in contact with many MDA experienced certified instructors they laugh at such nonsense. I was there in the beginning and throughout IDC's popularity including the recent addition of RPM. Those classes, you described, sound like cake compared to what I've put myself through for the sake of training and riding outdoors.  But, and this is what I recently told a new instructor who recently finished his first RPM training, you're not in the front of the room for YOU. You're up there for the class-AND NOT the front row riders-but the "ones in the back that you "reserve the back row for."  Cuz, guess what, the elite already know what they're doing and they will drop you like hot coal for the next best thing OR they will realize that you truly DON'T know what you're doing and find someone more knowledgeable. But, if you turn on the newbies, they will be forever in your debt.

    Sorry to be so harsh, BUT MY job is to turn as many people on to exercise (any exercise), but especially IDC, and very especially outdoor cycling as possible before I die. And you and your ego impeede my progress.  I don't want you in my class your ego takes up too much space in the studio

    Oh and sprinters inyour class doing 130-140 RPM. Oh Please!!  Go look at Tour de France Tapes -even the PRO sprinters RARELY go more than 115 RPM.  If your riders are pedaling that fast then there's NO resistance.  Even Lance Armstrong who loves a faster cadence, especially climbing, likes to live in the 90's RPM zone. Do the homework.

  •  05-10-2008, 5:23 AM 29458 in reply to 29435

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    OUCH!  you go girl!  =)
  •  05-10-2008, 9:11 AM 29460 in reply to 29435

    Re: RPM vs. Spinning

    Well I did do my homework and here is what I found:

    "He has an extremely high aerobic threshold and therefore can maintain a higher cadence (often 120 rpm)"

    The is sustained and he will peak at 140 rpm.

    Here is the point I think where we are seperating. I teach and want a high intensity cardio class. It's 50 min after all not 4 hours of road biking.

    Riding style

    Armstrong has a high lactate threshold and can maintain a higher cadence (often 120 rpm) in a lower gear than his competitors, most noticeably in the time trials. This style is in direct contrast to previous champions (e.g., Jan Ullrich and Greg LeMond) who used a high gear and brute strength to win time trials. It is believed that a high cadence results in less fatigue in the leg muscles than a lower cadence requiring more severe leg muscle contractions. Ultimately the cardiovascular system is worked to a greater extent with a high cadence than with a lower, more muscular cadence. Because the leg muscles are taxed less with a high cadence pedaling style, they recover faster, and the efforts can be sustained for longer periods of time. Armstrong dedicated a significant portion of his training to developing and maintaining a high cadence style. 

    The idea here is intence cardio, not a simulated outdoor ride. My outdoor riders come to my class for one reason, "I get a much better ride in here in 60 min then I can outdoors in 60 min" Jon, a Triathele.

    I have taken classes from outdoor riders that show up in there outdoor uniform, we do a simulated outdoor ride for 50 min and it just doesn't do it for me, its a yawner. Agian we have climers and sprinters. I peak at a 180+ rpm cadence and my advance students can peak at 130-140 and we always sprint with resistance. It a push/pull balance and coodination segment of a class the reach a peak heart rate. I understand in the RPM world this is taboo just like drop seat and I do appreciete the feedback.

    The question I would pose to you is this .... how many bike do you have in your studio? and how often are you at 100% capasity? If it's 9 out of 10 times, your doing the right things to keep people coming back. If it's like my gym where they teach RMP 20% capasity, somethings just not right.

     

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