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BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

Last post 07-27-2008, 5:45 AM by mrrocket. 61 replies.
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  •  07-17-2008, 10:27 AM 36667

    BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    Fabu music and chorey yet again, however...

     Did anybody else get frustrated at the number of times the camera pans all the way out or to a strange angle or zooms into a presenters face, meaning that we are unable to see what the instructors feet and arms are doing?

     

  •  07-17-2008, 11:16 AM 36670 in reply to 36667

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    I BLAH'd about it.
  •  07-17-2008, 11:48 AM 36675 in reply to 36670

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    I sent some feedback on this topic and asked if there had been other similar feedback but I just got a generic 'check out BLAH' response...
  •  07-17-2008, 12:55 PM 36685 in reply to 36667

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    The same thing happened in Combat and Flow, it was HORRIBLE.  I BLAHd about it but who knows if they pay attention. 
  •  07-17-2008, 2:15 PM 36691 in reply to 36667

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    I have no evidence to support this, but one supposes that they have several cameras going at once and edit out what they don't want.  Guess maybe the editors didn't like what the presenters were doing when they chose all that "color" footage instead. When you don't have meat, give 'em gravy..... hehe

    Rex


    Excuse me... May I motivate you?
  •  07-17-2008, 2:20 PM 36692 in reply to 36685

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    Is it maybe because it was taped at the global summit and they were trying to catch the excitement and atmosphere?!?! 

    I do agree that it is agrivating to not be able to see feet and technique.  Let's hope this isn't a trend for upcoming DVDs that we need to use to teach the LM programs.

    cbc

  •  07-17-2008, 5:07 PM 36702 in reply to 36692

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    I'm glad to see these comments.  Because after I did the 45 the first time using the dvd, as instructed, and was so frustrated by the cutting/editing/changing angles shots, I didn't want to wait to BLAH.  So I wrote the regional rep, who passed my comments on.  They were great about responding, both from the region and from NZ, and said they're paying attention to things for upcoming releases.

    This release was the worst for the music video style of editing, but I've noticed the same thing in each of 40-44, so that's why I wrote.  As I explained to them, I don't want a music video to entertain me with the flavor of their class.  I want to SEE their class so that:  1) I can do the moves without having to spend extra time/effort to figure out something so basic as which foot we're on, 2) to see how THEY connect with the class they are teaching right then...how they create fitness magic in the one class....which the music video style of editing does NOT show.

    When we're in front of a class, we don't have camera angles to switch to....can't distract participants by showing someone else...can't fake the excitement by the jerky, jumpy style of camera work that is so common in videos.

    Again, the people who received my email were great and said they were talking about the instructional quality of the dvds.  But....since I've noticed it in the BodyStep dvds also, and someone else mentioned Attack and Combat......hmmmmmmm....maybe it's the conceptual view that is embedded.  Not sure my email alone will carry much weight. 

  •  07-18-2008, 5:49 AM 36745 in reply to 36702

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    OMG you lot are unbelievable!!!!

    The production team/post production team and especially the Jib operator did a fantastic job on these releases.

    Orkonbob, i hope your email does not cary much weight cus i know loads of instructors who loved the way this was filmed.

    The editing and camera angles are amazing and really capture the atmosphere of the whole event, not only that i think they help to emphasise the true emotions that should be conveyed in a class.

    The DVD’s were friken awesome and i sat back and just thought.....what a fabulous spectacle. In terms of not helping learning the release!!!?????????? I have watched it many times and you can see that much effort and thought has been made in the editing/post production not to cut away when there is a change in chorey for the first time and once you have seen how it goes it then just repeats the chorey and thats when the camera cuts to either the Jib (overhead) camera, the handheld camera (which i assume is camera 4,maybe) and then cut away to the master shot (cam2) and then back in between cam 1 and cam 3.......at a guess : ) 

    Not only have you got the main DVD to learn the chorey i feel that it has never been explained better in the educational and if you have not got after all that then i would also suggest next time you write in to moan and whinge, you may wanna request pop-up versions of the chorey notes!!

     

    I wanna take a moment to thank everyone who was involved in the production of the dvd’s and want you to know that all your efforts did not go unnoticed and loved the rear projection.

     

    I mean do you guys ever EVER consider that there are thousands of us that LOVED they way this was filmed and that may be your few whinging,moaning letters might have an adverse effect on the thousands of us who loved it?

    I bet you guys are the first to write on tripadvisor when you get back from your holidays, no matter how great your holiday was its in your nature to have a moan about something!!!!


    happy:)
  •  07-18-2008, 6:16 AM 36748 in reply to 36667

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    I thought the camera work was cool... I remember thinking how professional it looked. It was amazing!

    The only time it bothers me is if it gets behind the presenters...

    my brain cant take thinking to cue (bodyJam) right and doing left and on top of it reversing to behind the performers. OMG my brain hurts just explaining it.

    I dont think its bad to voice your opinions.


    Tim
  •  07-18-2008, 8:01 AM 36760 in reply to 36745

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    Wow - Mrrocket - you're pretty PO'd about these posts, eh? haha

    I hate to pile on, but the point of the DVD is first and foremost, a learning tool for the instructors. When they give us shots from 1000 angles other than straight on, it's harder to follow, and thus harder to replicate. That is, after all, what we're trying to do, right? I want to look like G as much as possible! If all I'm getting is shots of the crowd or worse yet (timjammer said it!) they pan from BEHIND the presenters...it's rough.

    Now don't get me wrong! I get my DVD, invite EVERY Jammer in the DC/METRO area over and have a viewing party - so I definitely appreciate the presentation factor, but as a learning tool - it's not the most effective approach to have cameras filming as though we're watching So You Think You Can Dance? - you know?

    *Anyone else annoyed with the camera work for that show? I just want to SEE the dancing!!!!

  •  07-18-2008, 8:05 AM 36762 in reply to 36745

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    Ok, Rocket, take out about 4 of those question marks, tone down the tone, and we can try to have a discussion.

    First point for you to consider:  you've made some bad assumptions about how "cool" I thought the dvd was.  It was cool.  Great.  Fantastic.  It presented to those who don't know about BodyJam a great sense of the excitement.  And did the same for those of us who know about BodyJam already.  

    However, this thread is not about that. 

    This thread is entitled "Frustrating filming angles".  The dvd can be cool, exciting, best thing since chocolate was discovered.  That doesn't mean it's perfect.         And listen up.....I told them in my email I thought the dvd captured a lot of the excitement and energy that is part of BodyJam. 

    However, since this is Les Mills, and we as instructors doing the training are critiqued to the smallest detail (feet together on the landing, not apart.....fists closed on the sweeping move, not open hands......move your hips more doing the Salsa basic step.....your cueing in all the tracks was excellent, except you talked over the music too much during the recovery, etc.), I think it is appropriate and encouraged by the powers that be to offer critique, input, and to share what is not working for me as well as it should.

    At the start of each release, Gandalf says to do the release 2-3 times BEFORE going to the teaching/tips section.  I do as he says.  When I first do the release and don't already know the moves or what's coming, there are times when I can't see what is going on because the camera work/editing has chosen a different emphasis.  There are times.  Not every time.  Not each time.  Times.  And I identified some of those times as examples in the email I wrote. 

    It is ridiculous for you to tell me that there are other ways to learn the moves, when that isn't the point that I or the thread starter were making.  Of course I spend the time and effort to learn the moves....to figure out which foot to start on (when it's not shown at the beginning of the move)...to figure out the hand positions (when the camera shot during the class is too close to see it when his arm is extended).

    The point is that the filming/editing could be done better.  Better specifically in the area of instructor training.  Which is what this tread is about.  Which is what I told them.  Do you actually think there's no room for improvement?

    Any such improvement will result in trade-offs.  I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you meant that to be your point (your judgmental attitude and put downs really detract from your post)....that the excitement of the filming/editing is too good to trade off for better camera angles for viewing/taking the class as a participant. 

    And, of course, that is valid.  There are always trade-offs.  If you spent the whole time in a class giving base level instruction, for example, you might help people really get the basic move, but they probably wouldn't get the full effect of adding flavor and breaking out.  So you choose...you trade-off, even if that means that some people in the class don't get it that time.  The editors of the dvd have to make those decisions throughout.

    Consider yourself fortunate that the camera angles/editing doesn't hinder your learning.  For me, obviously it takes more effort....effort I'd rather use to work on adding flavor...better cueing...getting better prepared to lead and coach participants to make their experience in my class better...and I have given the feedback regarding what would help me achieve that.

    On another point, I enjoyed the excitement of the dvd.  However, for me I'd rather see Gandalf and Company connecting with the class they are instructing....so I can see them connect and create fitness magic right there in that room.  That is more helpful to me for when I'm in front of a group of people than to get a feeling from the dvd that the class G taught was exciting.  I already know that it is.  I need help making the class I teach be more exciting.  In that regard the dvd would serve me better if I could see him doing it right there in his class.

    As I said before, the people I wrote to were great in responding.  They actually accepted and encouraged my comments and feedback.  They also said they were already focusing on how to improve the quality of the materials for instructor learning/training.  I do believe they listen to the comments/feedback and work with it to improve what they do, just as they want instructors to improve as well.

  •  07-18-2008, 8:13 AM 36764 in reply to 36760

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    elizabizzle:

    .....So You Think You Can Dance? - you know?

    *Anyone else annoyed with the camera work for that show? I just want to SEE the dancing!!!!

    I'd answer, but don't want to get jumped on. Wink

    (Btw, thanks for saying in a short post what I said in a long one.)

  •  07-18-2008, 8:37 AM 36768 in reply to 36764

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    Haha -- you got it! I just want to see the big picture!
  •  07-18-2008, 8:48 AM 36770 in reply to 36667

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    Good thread. Thanks for bringing it up as I have recognized this also... as an instructor it is vital for me to view the video from an educational point of view. Thank goodness G and on occassion Rach and Dan extend training session at the end of the masterclass. I have just taken my Jam certification and was lucky to have 44...great basic class and I thought the video was edited well.  When I watched 45 I thought to myself, what a fantastic production, although I have had some difficulty in following this class.    The presentation and atmosphere are key and I understand this was a special production for the GS - plus the fact that the room was filled with trainers and instructors and supposedly no participants... but the moves and techniques for precision are more vital to me as an instructor. I now teach  4 programs and naturally exist in another busy life aside my LM classes. I have to always be on the fast track for learning the new releases. 

    I attended a filming last year and there is so much emphasis upon getting the atmosphere on tape to keep us motivated and its awesome to see yourself on the DVD on long trip to train with the best...but I absolutely agree with you, on occassion it is difficult to see what the whole body is up to when there are so many  room scans, diagonal frames and head shots. Overall its not an easy job to produce these videos but please LM keep the filming focus on the choreography for the instructors. KISS! Perhaps you can format in an uninterrupted miniture full body shot of G in the right hand corner of the screen for the whole class... and then that way still capture the faces and excitement and the big picture.....Big Smile

    Kath.

      


    List of things to do today. breathe in breathe out.
  •  07-18-2008, 9:11 AM 36772 in reply to 36745

    Re: BJ 45 Video - Frustrating filming angles

    Hey mrrocket chill off...  (and can you please turn down your font selection its like being screamed at) This is just about someone making a suggestion. Each to his own, this is open forum. You enjoy the production side.. some of us really get into the precision of watching the program director... I personally can never get enough of G. I too thought this was a sensational production and as I dont have sat TV anymore I watch my LM DVDs.. especially Jam.. for enjoyment and entertainment when I have time, but I have to learn my classes as quickly as possible and having to watch the DVD 4 times before I actually do it doesnt work so well for me.

    You are right ... it was a fabulous spectacle.


    List of things to do today. breathe in breathe out.
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