Community

Does anyone know how music licencing costs are currently paid for in the US?  New releases currently cost $35 US and above that clubs that run Les Mill BP pay a fixed rate per month.  Figure licencing costs must come from a percentage of one or both of these fees.

Currently here in NZ it's a flat rate per year, but there's a movement by the music industry to change this.  Already there's court cases in Australia to try and prevent the change before it comes to NZ (possibly why there's more music overlap in the programs).  Check out

http://clubindustry.com/forprofits/australian-music-licensing-affect-2608/

To expand on Errol's post, this is a controversial topic here as the Phonographic Performance Company of Australia are trying to screw clubs over for a whopping increase on the existing licensing costs.

The tribunal finished hearing arguments back in July and should be releasing a statement some time soon. If the PPCA win, it could see a significant decline in the number of clubs offering GEX programs due to unsustainable costs (and thus be a case of the PPCA cutting off their own nose).

All Aussies who enjoy taking or giving GEX classes should at the very least take a gander at Operation Music. Many of your gyms/clubs have already invested financially in an attempt to see fairness prevail.

---

---

Recently published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

---

The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

---

I have a question that may be the dumbest anyone's heard; I'm not an expert not even a novice, really) in the rules, regulations, and policies that govern licensing and copyright, but would it help matters at all if LM mixed/recorded/created their music in a country that was a little less strict with their laws governing music matters? Once the music was set, they could send it back to NZ for choreography and whatever else goes on so that I receive a nice little kit every three months. I feel like if that were the case, it would have already been addressed and executed, but I know here it seems like anything goes as long as the green's in the bank.

trancendental:

If the PPCA win, it could see a significant decline in the number of clubs offering GEX programs due to unsustainable costs

There seems to be a move in some parts to use music by artists not covered by the PPCA (mainly unsigned ones or works out of copyright).  Now if LMI used only that music in their programmes and pointed out that there's a lot of people who will hear these tracks and could they perhaps use them in their programmes I suspect the unsigned artists would bite their hand off.  Set up a LMI mini-store on iTunes to link to all of those tracks and they could probably get the song rights for next to nothing.  We'd all get new *original* music and the PPCA (and its members) would get nothing.  Things would soon change.

Just a thought :) 

---

Gym life: participant only. Currently doing Combat, Pump, Attack, Balance & Jam. Now retired from Step due to continual grumbling from ankles.

thefitnessguy:

... would it help matters at all if LM mixed/recorded/created their music in a country that was a little less strict with their laws governing music matters? Once the music was set, they could send it back to NZ for choreography and whatever else goes on  ...

Good idea in theory, however I suspect LM's major outlay is not getting access to these songs per se, but more the associated costs with international redistribution rights levied by the copyright holders on the finished product. So regardless of where the tracks were sourced from, as long as a major recording/distribution company is involved, the financial thumbscrews will be applied.

Which brings up neatly onto Graham's solution:

---

---

Recently published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

---

The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

---

TennisElbow:

There seems to be a move in some parts to use music by artists not covered by the PPCA (mainly unsigned ones or works out of copyright).  Now if LMI used only that music in their programmes and pointed out that there's a lot of people who will hear these tracks and could they perhaps use them in their programmes I suspect the unsigned artists would bite their hand off.  Set up a LMI mini-store on iTunes to link to all of those tracks and they could probably get the song rights for next to nothing.  We'd all get new *original* music and the PPCA (and its members) would get nothing.  Things would soon change.

A similar analogy would be "why do we all pay for M$ products when so many open-source/freeware alternatives exist?".

Habit I suspect, but the tide is turning ... maybe the same eventually for music too.

---

---

Recently published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

---

The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

---

A while back, another forum member suggested that LMI use unsigned artists and make original music for their programs. I thought it was an interesting idea. Would be a dream for any unsigned band, since their music would be so widely spread (and the band would get paid).

Although I suspect some, maybe many, of those tunes would also appeal to the general population and could even become successful (I remember a song from a commercial for a popular soft drink many years ago, that wasn't intended for anything else but became a great hit). Downloading of LMI tracks would increase. That could be a problem. Should LMI then spread that music? Become a record label as well?

---

BODYSTEP participant since January 2008, BODYPUMP participant since February 2009.

Loppan:

 

Become a record label as well?

I've been suggesting this for some time, but to no avail. It would seem that LM are sticking to what they know.

Doesn't stop us wishing though.

---

---

Recently published - my review of BodyPump 73 is available on my blog at:
http://rickinoz.com/2010/03/07/bodypump-73-review

---

The forum member "pipera" is not a Les Mills Instructor, though his posts, signature and profile will falsely claim otherwise.

Since he has been economical with the truth on his profile, read the real facts here.

---

One thing that got me into Les Mills in the first place was the music.  If they got rid of all of the original artists and I didn't recognize any songs, or they were covered poorly, I would be really bummed!  Music you know is a good motivator in a work out!

Yes, that was one of my motivation too. They use more commercial music but those are the songs you can recognize .

---

Another BP, BA, BC, BJ and RPM freak Quarterlies in Paris, March : 03/12-13-14/2010 http://animoto.com/play/zB4oi9QgG0qnUSWmFPYi3A? On twitter : Tiger75Paris

thefitnessguy:

I have a question that may be the dumbest anyone's heard; I'm not an expert not even a novice, really) in the rules, regulations, and policies that govern licensing and copyright, but would it help matters at all if LM mixed/recorded/created their music in a country that was a little less strict with their laws governing music matters? Once the music was set, they could send it back to NZ for choreography and whatever else goes on so that I receive a nice little kit every three months. I feel like if that were the case, it would have already been addressed and executed, but I know here it seems like anything goes as long as the green's in the bank.

That doesn't work, because the laws still prevail in each individual country. It doesn't matter where the music is recorded (in the case of the PPCA), but rather, where it is used.

TennisElbow:

There seems to be a move in some parts to use music by artists not covered by the PPCA (mainly unsigned ones or works out of copyright).  Now if LMI used only that music in their programmes and pointed out that there's a lot of people who will hear these tracks and could they perhaps use them in their programmes I suspect the unsigned artists would bite their hand off.  Set up a LMI mini-store on iTunes to link to all of those tracks and they could probably get the song rights for next to nothing.  We'd all get new *original* music and the PPCA (and its members) would get nothing.  Things would soon change.

LMAP has officially announced that LM would indeed look at other sources of music if the PPCA win their case in Australia. Take a look at their press release: http://www.totallylesmills.com/site/index.php?categoryid=2&p2_articleid=27

 

I think the major implication would be mixing with back releases. Would that mean we could no longer use old releases?

Also, while some people may think "this is happening in Australia, it doesn't affect me"............beware, it does indeed affect the whole world. If the PPCA win this case in Australia, the legal people high up are claiming that the music companies are using this case as a precedence for future cases worldwide. Australia is seen as a "soft" target, but will set the road for future court claims in other countries. If they win in Australia, expect more law suits to follow up in other countries........if they lose? Hopefully they'll go quiet for a while.

---

Unofficial Les Mills news and tracklists - www.totallylesmills.com
LM & Fitness Forum - www.groupfitness.org

Fitcodester:

One thing that got me into Les Mills in the first place was the music.  If they got rid of all of the original artists and I didn't recognize any songs, or they were covered poorly, I would be really bummed!  Music you know is a good motivator in a work out!

 

This is exactly what makes Les Mills so much better than all the other GF programs out there!  (among other things of course!)

In fact, I remember when I was trained in RPM by THE Dan McDonogh, who was at the time co-Program Director with Glen for RPM, awesome trainer by the way!  Anyways, the question came up about why our quarterly program kits are so expensive etc, and his reply was that LMI pays upwards of $10K PER SONG to use them in their programs!

If the music industry is seriously thinking of upping this charge, that's completely ridiculous!

But it does shed some light on why a song is used across different programs, i.e. the newest pump cooldown track being the same as the new RPM pace track!  

 

I say thanks to LMI for keeping the original artists whenever possible, it really does make that much of a difference!  A poorly covered song totally ruins it for me! 

---

Global Fitness & Jezreel Fitness Spokane, WA Happy to be part of the team!

Daves929:

But it does shed some light on why a song is used across different programs, i.e. the newest pump cooldown track being the same as the new RPM pace track!  

No, this is not true. LMI pay only for the usage of the song in one release. Basically when they pay for the rights to use a song, they only get a certain amount of copies of CD's for that song. If they reuse the song in another program, they pay again.

This has been confirmed by staff at LMI.

I do understand that this also contributes to the reason they do not reproduce back releases. I haven't had this officially confirmed, but I believe they would have to pay a further licence for the songs to be able to make further copies of their own back releases.

---

Unofficial Les Mills news and tracklists - www.totallylesmills.com
LM & Fitness Forum - www.groupfitness.org

Are P!nk songs cheaper in some way...?